h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

thank you to all for the wonderful input. i have just just been pushed out of a relationship with someone because they cheated on me. the person that told me that it was going to happen, happens to be my ex's sister. it is a long and complicated story... and i know that we were having problems in our relationship, but i never thought that it would have amounted to what it became. i dont think though that i would be able to ever cheat on anyone, no matter how the relationship is going. i think that it just comes down to your personality, if it is a common thing for you to use a situation to your advantage, having sex with someone, even though you are with someone else, you probably will do it again. also i think that to have an affair with anyone, be it someone that you know that is married, or just a one night stand, it all boils down to your self esteem. many people do not think that their bodies are worth more then that. but im sure that that is probably my own personal opinion. i have had an affair with someone else, and i hated the fact that i did it, but it was an esteem issue for me. there was so much more that i wanted to say, but i have forgotten too tired, take care wildiris

> "do you think that if someone considers themselves bisexual, are they able to have a lasting long term relationship with another?"

I'm amazed nobody has picked up on that...

I'm bisexual: I like blondes AND brunettes. Yet I may some day manage to stay in a long term lasting relationship with another, in spite of it all...

... not any time soon, though!

Being a redhead myself I noticed you left them out. I'm even a former redheaded step-child. When I was surfing the net about redheadedness, I noticed particularly a lot of prejudice against redheads in England, especially of redheaded boys. The "redheaded stepchild" slur I saw just today to describe the Palestinian arabs.
I thought it curious. You can see what I mean if you go soon enough to sf.indymedia.org a website with news our u.s. papers often omit.

>>Re: Bisexuality as the norm and as deviation - the Ancient Greeks and to some extent the Romans valued homosexuality higher than heterosexuality. Who knows what they considered 'normal' or if 'normal' was even a concept they had<<<

It's too hard to apply our contemporary notions of homosexuality (mostly as a specific identity) to the Ancient Greeks. As I understand it (forgive me if it is a little sketchy, one of my professors explained it this way last year), homosexual acts were only permitted between certain respected intellectual men and younger boys under a kind of, "tutoring" basis, the relationship could only last for a certain time period, and that consent had to be obtained from the parents.

I thought I did address the bisexual long-term relationship issue in post 16 Lucinda, albeit briefly.

So were there any more definitions of 'unfaithfulness'? Seems like we've 'strayed' somewhat.

Sus

You, Ben and Mother of God put it so well the rest of us were left with nowt to add.

Personally, I would not consider an escapade, of which my partner had full prior knowledge, to be unfaithfulness, but I would consider neglecting one's partner, making them unhappy, spending all your time with another (or talking/thinking about them) - even if no sex was involved, to be.

Sex is second to the thought in effect? Or as the saying goes 'it's the thought that counts'. Absolutely.

When I first read your statement about infidelity being a symptom of deep problems, I thought 'naaaa' because people are only human/animals and there are some who cannot control themselves. However, on closer thought I reckon you're right. Speaking as someone who falls in love every five minutes I have never actually been physically unfaithful and I think this is the part that matters. I could never betray my husband in this way as he is worth so much to me. I find it rather amusing that people constantly catch my eye but I never let on and I keep it quiet. I'm sure many other people are the same but thoughts are your own and no one need ever know....

hmmmmmm...

Int'resting. I consider myself bisexual, currently het-practising. If you follow. I reckon I have to be friends with someone before being in love with them, but seperate love & lust. I have discussed the issue of other relationships with my good man, and reached the conclusion that for me to be with a woman as well would not be unfaithful. Fair enough. I used to think that if I was involved with both, I wouldnt' have the emotional energy to be in love with both of them at the same time. However, now I reckon that since any potential female partner would already be a close friend, there would be no difference apart from the addition of sex. (Hope this makes sense.) At the same time I can have friends I'm non-lustfully in love with, right? At the moment I'm mainly imagining same-sex situations simply because they currently ain't happening. But if I even so much as dream of being with another chap, I feel uneasy... so that, to me, would be unfaithful. (Not that I take dreams seriously or owt.) By the same brush I would consider it unfaithfulness for my SO to go with another woman.
but that's just me, and I am perpetually confused.

Years ago I happily had many friends who became lovers and lovers who became friends.
Then I became involved with an extremely possessive man, who had to be the only one. (Oddly enough we split up because he unjustly accused me of infidelity. )
So when I acquired the current one I automatically went for the "forsaking all others" idea.
But after 12 years we know each other so well, and are sufficiently secure in the knowledge of mutual love, that if either of us were tempted to "stray" we would discuss it with the other and proceed with his/her blessing.
That, to me, would not be unfaithfulness.
Having a secret, furtive affair would, whether with a male or a female partner.

I think a lot depends on to what extent you can be mentally alone in bed with the person you are physically alone in bed with.

If your mind is haunted by visions of the gorgeous pert bottomed Occasional Other while the two of you are making the beast with two backs, and if this vision is a threatening intrusion and not a welcome fantasy, then there is a problem.

On the other hand if you have the ability or the lack of curiousity or the high self-esteem or whatever to accept that when they are with you it is because they want to be with you, and when they are with their Occasional Other it is private, then the fact that they are with someone else is less painful.

And Tefkat is right, sex can happen in a whole variety of emotional contexts. And so what consitutes unfaithfullnes has a huge amount to do with the context. It is hard to be unfaithful to someone with whom you had a one-night stand.

The time that I felt most jealous, what I was jealous of was a friendship involving trust and confidences. I had been mentally deserted, and felt mentally bereft. If two people are abroad and you are not then there is no way of knowing if their friendship turns sexual at any time. But all my knowledge of the two concerned, and independent third party verification, tell me that there was no sexual element to that friendship. But at the time it wounded and confused me.

I am going to sling up another dilemma - but will save it for the next post.

B

OK Keanu, Pop Quiz:

This one is inspired by Eccentrica Gallumbits post 12, which indicates that there is more than one kind of mistress.

Situation one: You are a man, and your marriage is ok-ish, stable-ish, and happy-ish. You are having an affair. Your mistress is pretty independent. She makes it clear that she is not interested in couple-dom, and while she enjoys your company and enjoys going to bed with you, she doesn't want any commitments from you. She is discrete: she leaves it up to you to phone her, she doesn't ask intrusive questions about your wife, she makes you feel good with no strings attached. You know that if you ever said: 'I am thinking of leaving my wife' her response would be: 'I have had a lovely time, and will always value our friendhip, but I am not prepared to be involved in someone who is splitting up from his wife, so I won't be seeing you again'. How much of a threat to your marriage is she?

Situation two: You are a man, and your marriage is ok-ish, stable-ish, and happy-ish. You are having an affair. Your mistress is flatteringly attracted to you. She is fascinated by every aspect of your life, including your marriage. She is profoundly sympathetic about the problems in your life, and understands the difficulties you are experiencing with your wife. She is on your side. Your relationship is really important to her, and she sometimes resents the secrecy. For example, she loves wearing your gifts in public. If you have a chance to see her - say your wife is staying with her parents - she assumes that you will spend as much time as possible together while your wife is away. You know that if you ever said: 'I am thinking of leaving my wife' then her response would be 'How soon can you move in?' How much of a threat to your marriage is she?

Ben

Re Post 31:

The time I felt jealous was exactly the same. If you know someone loves you there is much you can accept with equanimity (hence all the women who put up with philandering husbands that have countless affairs - not because they have low self-esteem or can't do better, but because that is the person with whom they wish to spend their life and he feels the same way about them) but if you have reason to believe they are not fully committed to you that sort of close friendship, that deliberately excludes you, is agony.
Marriage (or commitment, if you don't believe in marriage) isn't necessarily about sex.
And I'm sure that, like me, you know several people who make wonderful friends and potential sexual partners but with whom you could never contemplate spending the rest of your life.

Ah, a rhetorical Pop Quiz huh?

Another question.

If someone belongs to a culture that insists marriage is for life, with no exceptions, and, through no fault of their own, their partner divorces them and remarries, should the 'injured party' be doomed to spend the next 40 or 50 years alone?

If, after a couple of decades of loneliness, he were to find the sort of mistress outlined in Ben's 'Situation One' and was able to keep his parents/children/friends from knowing would he be wrong to do so?

Is unfaithfulness to your upbringing permissible?

Oh the pop quizes are not rhetorical - I really want to know what people think about the differences and the similarities between the situations.

Can you be unfaithful to your culture? Now that IS an interesting question.

My father (who was an experienced and wise man) certainly thought so. But he was thinking in a religious context. He was outraged by someone who lived in the village who had converted to Islam. I am not entirely sure why. My guess is that my father - who became a Clergyman late in life - would have been happier as a Buddhist but that he chose to serve his spiritual and pastoral ministry within the Church of England because he did not want to inflict the social challenges that converting to Buddhism would have created in my parent's Anglo-Indian British Raj circle. 'Going native' would have been one thing. Taking your wife and four children with you would have been to his way of thinking something else entirely. I should say that he was the most honest man I have ever known.

You suggest a man who is divorced by his wife, taking on a discrete mistress and thereby betraying his culture. I strongly suggest, since most cultures give the benefit of the doubt to the men, that it would be acceptable. Isn't that what Geishas and Nauch Girls are all about?

But for a woman who is divorced by his husband, and who takes on a discrete lover thereby betraying her culture...? I have no issues with that, but then it is my culture she is moving towards. My doubts are to ask whether or not it would be practical, and whether or not she would be found out and doubly ostracised. The risks she ran would be terrible.

Ben

I think that to imagine yourself with another, whilst having sex with your partner is a form of unfaithfulness. It would be better perhaps to shag the other and get it out of your system. I also believe the other person you should be faithful to is yourself. Also, to admit your unfaithfulness (if you believe it is such) from guilt is done merely to make yourself feel better, as it won't make your partner feel any better at all.

Still you can be comppletely honest and still not get it right. Some years ago, when embarking on a casual sexual relationship, I told the guy that I was in a relationship and would never leave my partner, he thought that was cool. Then tried to make me leave my partner!

Now I am faithful to my own beliefs and my partner, cause being unfaithful is just too much trouble. However I am completely ready to do so, if I had tried before being ready, it would all have gone wrong.

> I think that to imagine yourself with another, whilst having sex with your partner is a form of unfaithfulness.

Not quite the situation you describe Kaz - but pertinent nonetheless: A679322

B

And while I am reading your post, it strikes me that you casual bloke switched from being situation one to situation two in Post 32.

I had not thought of it the other way round.

B

I read the poems agcB, they were very good, and I usually don't like poems! Thanks for pointing them out

Glad you liked them.

B