h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Sorry Ben - I didn't mean the pop quizzes were rhetorical - just that with that one how could anyone find situation 1 threatening or situation 2 non-threatening.

By culture I meant the whole shebang, including religion.
Anglo-Indian Catholicism, with all the Victorian attitudes and repressive extended families...
It seems you know.

What are Nauch girls?

Ah, well now - for a woman in that situation the safest thing to do is only () married men, since they will definitely be discreet.

Nautch girls? Hell I cannot spell. I was thinking of the Indian women who were that culture's equivalent of Geishas, but who danced instead of making tea.

Ben

Re situation one and the discrete mistress - an insecure wife would find it threatening.

B

Hmm.

Hi



Personally I wouldn't sleep with someone who was married or even recently seperated. If I was attracted to someones husband I would also avoid any situation that might incline me to act on it. Hope that doesn't sound to moralising, its just everything in my experience tells me that it would be a mistake.

If my friends husband was having a fling, probably I would tell my friend, I'm thinking close friends or sisters. I'd give the partner the chance first, and I'd have to be totally totally sure of my facts. I think that I would lose the respect of my friend(s) if I didn't but that's because of the type of relationships we have, honesty is highly prized. One measure of our friendship is that we are honest with each other even if makes everyone flinch. I would beg any friend not to have a fling and advise them to resolve one way or another the relationship that they are in, but I wouldn't tell their partner if the case was reversed, I'd still be their friend and I don't think that it would change how I felt about them or our friendship. I wouldn't sleep with a friends ex either, or alot of water would have to pass under the bridge, say a decades worth

I'm interested in the concept of 'virtual infidelity' going to have more and think about it.

Love Peanut xx

One thing I have learned in this life is that men are not the only ones who sometimes think with their genitals...

I used to think I never could, never would. But as Mae West said - I was pure as the driven snow, but I drifted...

Thanks for your interesting replies Peanut.

The friends in the "would you tell" situations were not best friends or sisters in either case. We are talking about former very close friends who have moved, but who take the time and trouble to visit and stay with each other on a regular basis.

If someone was cheating on my best friend I would certainly tell her, which I find interesting. But I suspect that my focus would be to minimizer her pain, and my loyalty would be more to her than to him because of the closeness of my existing friendship with her. If she was with someone I really liked, I would tell him to stop talking to me about it, and to face the problems in his relationship and deal with them. If he didn't then I guess I would have to tell her. I find it interesting that my own reaction depends on how close a friend I am to the people involved, and how much of an intrusion it would be for me to step in and talk to one or both of them. It also seems to depend on whether I am a friend of the couple in equal measure or a friend of one partner in particular.

Thanks for making me work through that, Peanut.

When I was discussing the is-it-ok-to-sleep-with-your-friend's-ex situation with one of the people involved in it, we came to the conclusion that there was a statute of limitations, a period of time after which it would be acceptable to do it. So far as I know, in that particular situation, that time has not yet arrived a year or so later. I confess to tracking that one with a bit of curiosity.

You may have guessed that all of these situations so far are real enough, but I am more discrete than I look, and won't tell you what happened. Actually one of them was made up for contrast: it is true enough I just don't know anyone in that situation personally, but the rest are all for real.

B

This is an interesting discussion that causes me a few problems. I will start with unfaithfulness. I think it is wrong, but i think it is important to think about what it actually means. Faithfulness is mixed up with loyalty, fidelity, honesty, but not necessarily with monogamy.

I think sleeping with somebody who is not your partner is wrong if you are in a committed, loyal, stable relationship. If you have made agreements and promises (implied if not stated) then breaking them is wrong. If you are in a relationship where you have discussed and agreed that it is okay to have sex outside of the relationship then you are not breaking those promises and aren't being unfaithful or disloyal. The same applies when a relationship has broken down and BOTH parties agree there will be no future.

Of course this is all before the fact. Re 'would you tell' questions - as Ben said, it depends on the closeness of the relationship with the friend and their unfaithful partner, for similar reasons. Personally I wouldn't have a relationship with a married man, however shaky their marriage is claimed to be. This is for several reasons - their partner may not know it is over, it could be a world of trouble emotionally for me, people lie. This comes from the point of view of somebody that hasn't always been in love with the man before sex, but always is afterwards - I always fall for them so casual flings with men with fresh scars are an emotional timebomb really.

Getting away from RL sex a bit, I agree with whoever it was above that said virtual sex is still an urge acted upon.

Maybe I am just old fashioned or too possessive, or have low self-esteem or something, but if my boyfriend had sex (including Clinton-esque non-sex), or an emotional relationship (and by this I mean something more than a friendship that wasn't yet physical) with somebody else I would consider it a betrayal of the first order. I don't know if I could ever get over it because it hasn't happened to me. I know some poeple do find a way to work around it but loyalty is important to me, in relationships, in friendship, in most aspects of my life - not sure I could forgive it. If he came to me first and explained that he wanted something outside our relationship I would consider the relationship to be over....

k - with unusually black and white views on this

Hi again.

I think that I'd still tell even if they didn't live on my doorstep. Once I'm friends with someone usually I stay friends when they move away. I pondered over two friends being in a relationship and one of them being unfaithful to another, it would be an extremely difficult situation and would I imagine put my relationship with the 'unfaithful one' under immense pressure, whether that gets to breaking point would be dependant on their eventual course of action. Arghhhh. Again it depends on circumstances a one night stand, that's a mistake or at least that's how I'd imagine my friends would feel, a fling different ballgame. Like Sus I think having a fling is syptomatic of the relationship that you are in, even a one night stand should make you question what the hell is going on.

The other factor I'd consider would be age. I'm old enough, experienced enough and not hughly confused about what I want in relationship to have fairly clear personal guidelines that I'm confident of. If the two friends were my younger friends I'd be more inclined to let them work it out for themselves and spend time with them going through that. Probably wouldn't have as much patience with someone older, I'd expect them to have more insight about their own behaviour and how I'd feel about being put in that situation.

As for the vertual stuff I think that I have decided that anything that would make me uncomfortable in RL would make me uncomfortable on the net too.

Very interesting thread.

Love Peanut xx

The reason I asked the question is that I am sometimes plagued by thoughts of my boyfriend being unfaithful to me...it is more that he wouldn't tell me than him actually being unfaithful..although both are not good in my mind. And, the fact is that I have NO reason to think this. We are close, talk about mostly everything, and I trust him. So why this 'obsession'? Is it that I have low self worth, is it cos of things that I have learnt through my parents' relationship?
Either way, it seems evident that as with everything else in life, the answer to my question is subjective, it has been good to read the replies and see how the conversation has progressed.
I always wondered whether the homosexual community is more open to polygamy (if that can be used with same sex relationships??? I guess so)..because the gay people I know do not seem to have such problems or hang-ups about it as the hetereosexuals I know..
As for homosexuality happening from the womb...news to me!

Hi Cheeky Monkey - I wondered if we were giving you the answers you wanted. I hope it doesn't seem as if I am stage-managing this thread too much. It appears that it is something which has touched my life more than I thought.

On the 'should you tell' dilemma, I decided not to tell, and I am certain it was the right decision.

The couple concerned have known me for over 20 years, both before and after they were married to each other. We see each other three or four times a year, and count ourselves good friends. But we are not share-all tell-all best-friends.

I decided that if I told her that her husband was having an affair, I would have no control or input into what took place next. I also thought that it could end their marriage, and that I would lose the friendship of one or both of them.

As it happens it is plain to me that she found out, that they resolved their difficulties, and I would say that they are more happily married and that their marriage is now stronger, than ever before. And that if she had known that people outside the two of them knew that he was cuckolding her, then she would have been even more embarrassed and upset than she presumably was.

Sometimes the best thing we can do for our friends is share their pain. At other times the best thing we can do for them is let them experience their pain in privacy.

Ben

I give an over romantic kiss to someone which really shocked Fenchurch (who was beside me). However there was silence for a while (about an hour) but all three of us are just ignoring the fact.

This thread keeps grabbing me. I sat in the ca park today thinking that of all the friends I had the strongest bond with were clearly the ones in which we shared the same type of values. Sounds abit stern the values but there. We would have all answered this thread in excatly the same way. Spooky huh?

It kind of made things abit clearer, cos we are quite different, I mean really different in terms of personality and outlook and 'til now I thought that our common experience was being single parents. But the more I look it at it the more similarities I see in us, I'm trying hard to make sense of this, sorry if it doesn't hang together, despite different personalities, outlooks, worldviews, priorities of needs, on a deep level we share a similar, compatible attitude (which is probably based on some core values or beliefs) about the nature of friendship, loyality, honesty and fidelity.

Ben I hope it is obvious that I am not counteracting the type of action that you took, clearly it was right for that situation only it wouldn't have worked for us. And I'm not saying that our beliefs are better than anyone elses which might be different, I'm just being reflective about us. We don't have that privacy, maybe that is a bit scary, of course there are aspects of their relationships are private, but something like this would automatically be shared. Even if the partner was never caught but confessed there would be the call to granny to babysit, a god awful row, then phone your friends

Love Peanut xx

Hi Peanut

Ultimately shared values is what makes a relationship of any kind: the stronger the sharing of the values the stronger the relationship, whether that is a friendship, a romance or siblinghood. Which is one of the reasons we keep up with sisters and brothers against all odds.

This thread has been challenging me a lot too - which is why I have been posting here.

Ben

although i havent had a chance to read all of the replies that have been here since i last wrote here, i see that it has become something that i have needed. to see what my own values and morals are. a friend of mine recently told me that she had an affair with a woman that she has been attracted to for many years. her boyfriend is not taking to the news very kindly, due to the fact that they have not been intimitely involved for a few months. and as much as i love my friend, it hurts me that she had made that decision to have the fling, and hurt him. they have been together for many years, like 10, and i dont think that her actions are in good faith. i know that she is bisexual, and that he knows that as well, but i understand also that you either have to have that understanding, and i dont think that it is something that you should play with. if you are in a relationship with someone, no matter how open and honest it is, you shouldnt hurt another. im sure that they will work things out. and it will probably either bring them closer together, or break the relationship. i have come to an understanding about the affair that my lover had on me, and that it was her way of showing me that she really loved me. that she understood how unhappy i was within the relationship, because of my lack of communication with her. or really our lack of communication, that she used this as a way of getting out of the relationship, instead of trying to see what exactly we could do to strengthen our relationship. therapy is always good... and couples that find themselves in an impass it is probably better to have a 3rd party there to face the issues with, expecially if it is a communication breakdown. blah blah blah there are certain situations where your input is needed when it comes to an affair, and others where it isnt. its just good to be able to make that distinction before you get yourself too involved with others affairs. take care wildiris

this is another thing - how intimately involved you are with your partner when unfaithfulness occurs. What annoys me a bit is when me & bloke have not been intimate for a while, then I come home and he has been self-satisfying...
Although there is obviously nothing wrong with this and I know there are tonnes of reasons why self-satisfaction is needed rather than together, it always gets to me when we haven't been sexual or sensual towards each other. I am a very sensual/sexual person and it is important for me to feel that way through actions/reciprocation...not necessarily intercourse, just a nice touch or cuddle or tickle or meaningful kiss...
And when I don't have that for a while but know my boyfriend is getting off another way, it gets to me.
I sound like a really needy, difficult person here, and I am sure that I am only like this when in a relationship with someone who really means something to me. Other less meaningful relationships or flings I have had in the past have never had these problems, I remained secure and felt good..apart from the irrelevance of the relationships.

I am much more concerned with emotional cheating than with physical. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) is ocassionally attracted to someone other than their significant other. This is just our natural hardwiring and not indicative of one's desire to cheat on someone. This is especially true in men. No, I'm not man-bashing. In nature, the idea is for males to spread their seed far and wide, thereby assuring his genetic material is passed on to as many offspring as possible. Just because your guy ogles another female doesn't mean he's unfaithful. If he starts obsessing about another woman, then that spells trouble (even if he doesn't act on his thoughts, I still consider it being unfaithful).

If my guy were to develop a deep, emotional attachment to some other chick, then I'd feel betrayed. We have been together for two years and have an open relationship agreement that works extremely well for us. It eliminates a lot of jealousy issues that we've seen crop up in our friends' relationships. Besides, at the end of the evening, whether we go to a dance club together or separately, we always come home for each other.

I'm not bashing either but in their dreams, needed to make the most of every opportunity more like

Love Peanut xx

i have recently been in contact with the person who has cheated on me. and am having some mixed feelings... i know that it was a matter of having an emotional connection with her, which wasnt there. she apologized for being ungrateful, abusive and for not letting me express myself in the relationship... dont know where she got up the nerve, but it came from somewhere..therapy i hope. but the thing is should i still go on loving this person? i know it is only me and my heart that has been hurt, and i understand that there is alot of other issues involved, more then i will ever have the time to explain here, put in your humble opinion, should i pursue this avenue again. what would you do in this situation... i am a moralistic person as well, and do think that cheating is bad, but did i drive her away, or is it that she is just plain insane? appreciate any input that there is take care wildiris

Blimey, wildiris, you ask difficult questions.

What do YOU think is best for you?

Ben

Yow. There's a lot of variables. Definately decide what's best for yourself in the long run. Is she likely to do this again? Can she win back your trust? Are you willing to take the risk?