h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hmm, I always thought it was just one of those bits of linguistic xenophobia. Implication being they need to get drunk before they'll pluck up the courage to do anything? Don't the french call syphillis 'the English disease' or something?

So did I but it just got me wondering and what better place to wonder aloud than here in BEII

I never realised that this phrase had its origins in Shakespeare.
'All's Well that Ends Well' according to Brewer's.

According to http://pw1.netcom.com/~mrlucky/et_orts.html
In the 1600's, Edmund Waller, a poet wrote;
"The Dutch their wine and all their brandy lose, Disarmed of that from which their courage grows."
This was an attack on the Dutch - as part of an old battle for Naval supremecy.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~mrlucky/et_orts.html
That's a new link! [Go'bless the powers for letting us actually communciate again on a trial basis.]

But ..I spotted G.I. there as 'Government Issue' ..and I always thought it was Ground Infantry of General Infantry ..

Well done on the Dutch courage source! That one always bothered me and I never woulda found that.
thanks
peace
jwf

Dutch courage was originally the colloquial English name for what the Dutch soldiers drank before battle (i.e. gin). When the phrase was first coined, the Netherlands (or rather, what went on to become the Netherlands) and England were allies, so the phrase started off with complimentary connotations vis a vis Dutch bravery in combat. As relations soured, so did the phrase's meaning, but that didn't stop the English spending the next few centuries in a gin-induced stupor.

"Drunk for a penny, dead drunk for tuppence." That was our catchphrase.
Ah, those were the days.
Or, that was the daze.

Gin is our shortened version of 'Genever' which is in turn the Dutch word for the juniper berries from which it is made - interestingly nothing to do with Geneva, Switzerland

This is a shame because I was much atracted by the potentials of the phrase "Geneva induced stupor" having been to Switzerland once or twice and have yet to find much fun there at all.

There was a programme on last night on the telly (channel 4 I believe - thats in the UK!) where some bods were restoring a steam launch. Part of the process was to re-caulk the hull and after that's done, the caulking is covered with a sealant. Apparently this is called paying, and as it is a long tedious job it's not generally looked forward to. The longest seam to do is the devil and this apparently gives us the phrase 'the devil to pay'.

Is this true? Anyone know if that's where the phrase comes from? Somehow, the meaning doesn't seem to be quite right for this?

Must ask about this word 'bated'. I can't think of it in any other context. (Not to be confused, of course, with baited.)

Is the a verb 'to bate'?

It's in the dictionary: to bate means to restrain or the reduce the force or intensity. I think this is a verb which has died out except for the phrase "with bated breath".

Ictoan, dunno but the difficulty of working on the devils apparently also gave rise to being between the devil and the deep blue sea in the sense of being in an uncomfortable and difficult situation.

Don't inflatable dinghies have painters on them to tie them up ?

I think badger/bear bating is the same verb, isn't it?

To badger somebody, although obviously not a very nice thing to do, is a great verb. Thinking about it, there are lots of great 'animal' verbs: fox, dog, (does eagle from golf count, ie 'She eagled at the ninth' (*not* a Rosemary Sutcliffe novel!))

There must be lots more, I'd think.

seeya
spiff

I always liked the idea that old books were "foxed" i.e. a bit tattered. Myself and a friend at university once came up with a business idea to cater to those nouveau riche who buy libraries brand new (perhaps would have been a better idea at the time of the Industrial Revolution). We would advertise ourselves as book foxers and would take new books and put them in a bag with an enraged fox for a couple of minutes. et voila, a ready foxed tome to sit on your library shelf.

As long as it doesn't smell like one!

Sorry badgers were baited; likewise bears (with unmentionable animals).My idiolect includes badger for merkin and bear hug for a nasty situation where I think everyone else uses it for an enthusiatic cuddle. Result of childhood misunderstanding. Anyone else got similar to confess

I think a bear hug was a hug so tight that it prevented you from breathing, eventually resulting in you dying from asphyxiation. It seems unlikely that bears ever used such a method of killing their victims, since they are well equipped with claws and teeth.

Goodness, suddenly the thread springs to life again!

Disney's Jungle Book didn't help me to get bear/bare right.

WANDRIN' STAR

"My idiolect includes badger for merkin"

Merkin - as in pubic wig?

Weekends generally seem to be quite slow on this thread.

Concerning 'bate', though 'bated breath' is the main usage, I presume the verb 'abate' (as in floods and storms) is connected.