h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

On the topic of animals-of-which-we-shall-not-speak, does the name 'Fido' have the same root as 'fidelity'.?

Yes. Fido and fidelity come from Latin fidelis meaning faithful.

And confide - fide = fido, *to trust*. Interesting.

Just to add my tuppence worth, I think the above is a perfect example of why this thread keeps going. It is not just that there can be multiple on-going conversations within the thread, but also that people reading them tend to cause cross pollination which often brings new insights and interpretation to the discussions. Hence the meeting of the 'shhh, don't mention the ***'s ********' and the fidelity one.

All good stuff to someone like myself who is not as 'up' on these things as the rest of you.

So to add a fourth thread to the above , just wondered what you would make of the following thought. That English, as spoken in England anyway, is becoming more tonal and less 'wordy'. So that the street / common language for today uses less (or fewer, can't remember that conversation, will go look it up...) words than before BUT uses those words in a more flexible and creative manner. I.e. we are finally letting emotion into our language, and as such the emotion and stresses placed on a word cause it to have different meanings, whereas this aspect of language doesn't exist in the BBC or 'stiff upper lip' English.

Just a Though (TM)

Since writing does not convey such tonal information, we don't know whether people a hundred years ago used such tonal variations. But I can remember back about 35 - 40 years and I haven't noticed any increase in it.

My daughter uses the word "dhuh" said on three separate pitches (high, low, medium) to mean "How stupid can you get?".

Afraid I can't remember that far back, (I guess that makes be a BYF ). But it's something I can't make my mind up about.

I wonder how much of the written documentation as one goes back in history is an accurate portrayal of everyday language? I'd guess not much due to illeteracy and there being no need to record it. Personally I'm tending to the thought that common, everyday usage is much the same as it ever was, laziness and apathy dictating the overuse of many words (such as 'boring' and 'nice'). Hmmm, 'twas only a thought.

When writing, I do try more to avoid repeating words than I normally do when speaking.
I find it aesthetically displeasing, and distracting when speed-reading, if there are similar words too close together, especially in roughly the same horizontal position on nearby lines of text. Maybe there's an element of exercising (showing off?) vocabulary as well.

Undoubtedly. On the occasions when I exercise my vocabulary in vocal conversation, I find my audience has got bored and wandered off!

Still no suggestions about the word dykes.

The French have a verb 'fideliser' meaning 'to make loyal', usually in a commercial context, ie, 'fideliser la clientèle' means 'to make your customers stay with you'.

In the same context, they call those supermarket customer loyalty points cards 'cartes de fidelité'; fidelity cards!

Musically speaking, jw, I am more into ska (the old Jamaican variety, preferably) than skat, but I didn't really say uk English would pronounce *nothing* at the end of the word.

That glottal stop is all important, and differentiates between *ska* and *sca'* in spoken language.

I think.

Seeya
Spiff

On dykes, so to speak, according to dictionary.com it is offensive, and is meant to indicate a more masculine lesbian. Never having heard the word used by a real live person, I can't say whither it is any worse than saying "women with comfortable shoes".

Do most people agree that 'dyke' is specifically US? Although I am familiar with the word and its usage, I would be surprised to find many Brits using it.

Is that just me?

I definitely think it is, at least originally, pejorative. These words have a life of their own though, so the level of offence taken must depend on the context, I guess.

Basically, 'You f***ing dyke' seems really pretty offensive whereas 'We're all dykes together' might seem fine at the local lesbian society.

The best way to find out would seem to be to ask one! (in the friendliest possible way of course, and preferably one with who you are already friends, I spose)

Seeya
Spiff

*un-PC enough to fnaa-fnaa at the story of the lad who spent hours with his finger in a dyke*

Dyke is known and used, although how it moved from meaning 'artificial waterway, e.g. in the Fens, used to drain marshland' I really don't know. I do believe there is a mythical book on the subject of the waterways which is titled in a manner which could be misunderstood (especially by wilful teenagers!). Along similar lines to the 'Exploring Wagners Ring' book.

Although I'm not sure that Dyke isn't actually Dike when refering to watercourses. I think when I was growing up the two were interchangeable, certainly in our little corner of the country if nowhere else!

My dear departed father was so conFIDEnt of his masculine genes that he nick-named me Butch before I was born. He was sure I would be a boy, and if not, well surely the name would still apply.

So I come to the discussion with some sense of just how offensive 'dyke' is. And it is. Really offensive.

While some groups, in the privacy and company of their own kind, may amiably, even affectionately, call each other by the slurs and obscenities they have heaped upon them by outside bigots, dykes would have a hard time. Butch is still how they distinguish themselves as the more masculine of a pairing, the 'weaker' submissive partner is the 'femme'.

I would be surprised to hear that dyke was anything but American in origin and probably from the roaring twenties or prohibition era. It was common during the tuff War years and for a time after, but since the consciousness expanding 60s and a new awareness of civil liberties and minority groups, only a drunken redneck supported by his peers would dare to use the word in public. And probably only in a re-active sense if threatened on the job site by a liberated female authourity wearing steel toed boots and a hard hat whether she be gay or no.


jwf

*stray thoughts*
Possible etyms for dyke might include the German definite article 'Die' or the beard style known as a Van Dyke.

Ictoan for bringing a big fat laugh into my evening!

'Exploring Wagner's Ring', terrific! How did I miss out on hearing that up until now?

Btw, I've always rather liked the term 'women in comfortable shoes', although for a long while in my youth it rather puzzled me. Is it regarded to be offensive?

I spose *any* term *can* be offensive if the intent is there, but this terms seems pretty harmless in itself.

Seeya
Spiff

Oh dear, really.
To my unstudded and un-pierced ear, the phrase 'Women in comfortable shoes' rings of sexism generally as well as being condescending toward lesbians. The idea that 'real' women ought to suffer 'uncomfortable' shoes is positively Mandarin.

jwf

Thats OK Spiff, although I'm stil blaming you for finding myself exclaiming 'Blimey!' down the pub on saturday night. All your fault

Can't find anything on the etymology of dyke as slang, just a dating to 1942.

Well, to me it has always brought to mind nice comfy slippers worn by happy satisfied women. That's why I could never understand why it meant lesbians when I was younger. Sounded more matron-like than anything else - probably carrying a tray of cocoa and cookies.

I guess at the time I didn't really get all that sex stuff anyway. Even less clear than it seems now!

Seeya
Spiff

Spiff:
"I guess at the time I didn't really get all that sex stuff anyway." suggests that your fortunes have changed for the better.
Congratulations!