h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Bob - what is this craze you've created? You'll have to explain since I refuse to own a mobile.

Oh mighty Babel you would surely perish through lack of nourishment .

Blarty,


P.S. Do you have much trouble with wax build up ?

The translation into English as 'Virgin Mary' isn't semantically wrong: it's generally accepted that the earliest Greek texts referred to 'parthenou mariam' - apoligies for lack of appropriate fonts, etc. 'Maiden' is an almost exact English analogue for the Greek 'parthenos', and while it's true that in a few select contexts the Greeks used the word to mean otherwise (e.g. parthenios meant a bastard son), the association with chastity predominates massively. Athena (the virgin goddess), Vestal Virgins and the constellation Virgo were all referred to as parthenos, and in the case of the Vestal Virgins at least, youth had nothing to do with it.

i seem to get wax build-up (in my ears, i mean. that's where you guys are talking about, right?) during allergy season. i have no other allergies, except maybe 1 or 2 sneezes a year. the cheapest and easiest way to fix it seems to be listening to music really loud with headphones (but i dont blast the music into the ear that isn't clogged with wax).
ACTUALLY peroxide is used to loosen it, then the loud music.
i'm serious.
seeing the doctor is a pain in the butt, expensive, and i've heard medical professionals criticize the standard treatment (a gigantic water-pick) as risky.

yea but that still dsent explane what gives th prest the right to refuse to baptise one. ok if they are goin to say that untill we are baptised we are all evil at least baptise everyone who wants it not just the people they like

about the priest, i suspect he was just following rules. probably, the parent(s)/gaurdian of the kid hadn't sufficiently participated in the catholic procedures for baptism in some sort of way. maybe one of the parents needed to be confirmed, maybe the mom was really paranoid and wouldn't tell the priest the kid's real name, or wouldn't let him put water on the kid, or wouldn't remove her "I'm a polytheist" button. On the good side, it helps to assure the priest that the kid will have a minimally effective upbringing because a certain amount of devotion/seriousness about catholocism (i'm sure, bob, you'll forgive the spelling ... i've been havin wine—-guiness is to pricey) will have been exhibitted by the parents. On the bad side, a litmus-test of catholic devotion DOES just look like some sort of built-in, darwinian method of religion-preservation-- a primitive, appendix-like remnant from an age when there was no CNN, and religions were bandied about like rumours, an era when loyalty could come merely from fear and repitition, as long as people were allowed to eat. a typical beuracracy (i'm really too tired for the dictionary), but in its most brutal form.
and NOBODY wants a religion like that! not nowadays. not in public. perhaps in the US Congress, though...

or maybe the guy was just cleaning the place...

in any case, if the scene actually involved a lovely young mother, abandoned by luck, begging and crying for her child to be baptised like every other member of her practicing catholic family, only to be denied dismissively, with a spit, immediately before a practiced howl of "NEEEEXXT", then, yes, the catholics have got a problem.

but, probably, someone still needed to fill out some sort of form, whisper some sort of latin, kiss some sort of butt--to show, in some official way, that the priest wouldn't be wasting his time.

my dad is catholic (not my mom) and i was baptised catholic, but i have no memory of any sort of catholic proceedings. i've been to a few baptist things, though.

maybe a catholic expert could speak up and help us get to the bottom of this

everyone is the same religion if you believe in a god(s), just the same as all non-believers are all the same, they just don't believe. what defines what group you are labeled under is believing the way that labels say you believe. like what days you worship and what days you congregate at a set place for a set time. as well as what "high religious seats" can only be filled by a certain sex and not the other or if it is both sex.

i myself do not believe in a god or higher power guiding me. i think we have just been around longer than we think because we may be just a dot on someone else's timeline.

but because of how i believe and where i live puts me in a hot seat, i mean i don't want to piss anyone off, believe or do whatever it is you do to get by, but when these bible belt(mid to lower southern states in the US) holy religious people get on me, i have to defend my beliefs when they are attacking me, when the whole time they think i'm attacking their beliefs. now i just don't talk about it, no one asks either.

babe, about your girls, all i can say is talk to them, ask them what going to church does for them, where do they think they want to go with it, will this be a very long term thing, just talk to them find out how they feel about it. then decided what you feel would be best to do next.

~Tiffany L (Just Browsing)

I too am more than a little bemused by this priest's alleged refusal to baptise a child, as the Catechism has this to say on the subject: "The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.

One strategy that seems to work well in this situation is to point out to the priest that the Protestant Church down the road will be quite happy to step into the breech - I'm told this worked beautifully when the local priest expressed reservations about baptising me because my parents weren't married.

As a last resort, the Catechism has this to say: "In case of necessity, any person can baptize provided that he have the intention of doing that which the Church does and provided that he pours water on the candidate's head while saying: "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit""

I just wonder that in a couple of hundred years a book will be written,compiled from a few stories and maybe a couple of salutory tales ,a book say about....a subjugated people casting off there oppressors reigns, a race of people fighting against tyranny and injustice. Don't forget to take into account a few hundred years of spin doctoring by the actual people who write this book down the centuries "Add a little here,take a little there".Not forgeting the psycho-analysing of every last verse and chapter.
What could possibly be the outcome "Jesus the second coming" ?
Nope "Gandhi" pre order your copy now to avoid dissapointment.
Until "Personkind"-(crap PC touch) can let go of its mothers apron strings and stand,unafraid looking into the future we will always be subservient to our fears of making mistakes and doing wrong
(dont look up!) cast off your shackles.


Blarty - just got back from the pub /illiterate keeper of the orange sash / Believer in GOOD not god

Mighty Babel? Have you ever seen a babel fish?
Wax? Believe me a chew on that relieves the monotony of 24/7 in someones bloody ear....

I agree that Mary was supposed to be born of a virgin. What I don't get is why people think it's all that special. Gods were leaping out of virgins left and right in that era. Offhand I can think of two who did it, Dionysis and Mithras, but I have a book at home that lists about a dozen. A god just couldn't attract followers without being born in an unusual way (Athena's rise from her father's skull is one of the more extreme examples), and in Jesus' day, virgin births were all the rage. A god born through procreation in those days would be like a kid going to school today in pants that actually fit... far less ridiculous than their peers, but ostracized and tormented anyway.

Okay... let's see how I can do, trying to make up for about three weeks of conversation which I was unaware of,a nd now trying to jump into with my own thoughts, and opinions, and hoping not to be hung for sharing my thoughts.

To start... I was baptised and brought up in a Serbian Orthodox Church (the eastern orthodox christian church, usually know for the Greek, and Russian churches) and for the first 10 to 12 years of my life, I went to church every sunday. My brother fought getting dressed for church, my parents had too much to do on the weekends, and I didn't really have any form of transportation to keep me getting there. So I ended up not going to church much any more. Right now, I'm not sure if I believe in god, or if I believe what, if anything is responcible for the creation of earth, humans, or anything else.

I do know that I believe that everyone has the right to believe what they believe, and they have the right to practice thouse beliefs, so long as the practicing of those beliefs do not take away anyone else's right to believe their own beliefs. Basically, that means, anyone can talk about their religion/belief and try to convert someone else, but they can not continue to do so if the person/people they are trying to "save" tells them that they do not want to be "saved".

In reguards of general dislike of Christian that I've noticed, and people such as Cooper have pointed out in this thread. I think that Christians in themselves aren't bad... the problem is, most people assume all Christians are big mouthed, and force people into cronverting at sword point, or in missionaries by manipulation. It's just that the ones who aren't like that (the ones who make up the majority of the Christian faith) are usually pretty quiet, and keep to themselves until you ask them about it, so a lot of people don't notice them, they notice the big mouths. Human kind as a whole tends to remember the bad (the big mouthed bible thumpers) instead of the good (the quiet ones who will do what they can to help another person in need), so therefore, Christians have gotten a bad name from this.

And reguarding the original perpose of this thread. Tegan, you should not have any reason to feel like you have to hide your beliefs, or lack of them, which ever you want to call it. As has been said by others, you don't need to shout from the roof tops, exactly what you do or don't believe, but you shouldn't feel like you have to hide it. Unless God is totally petty, cruel, and unworthy of any respect, why would she* make humans so that they would be in such situations where they believe in many different gods if there weren't actually many gods, or if all these gods (be if plural, or singular for the belief) are simply different faces of the same being who is the creator? Besides, who are we to say who is right or wrong in their beliefs? The only way the question can be settled once and for all, is to die, and actually encounter what happens after death. Until one dies, no one knows for 100% sure is what they've decided to believe in is THE right thing to believe, but people can decide what they feel is right, and put faith in it.

As for your stepdaughters, the best way to go is to discuss with them, as adults, what you think, and listen to what they say. Be prepared that they may not agree with what you think, and may continue along the way they're already going, but at least try to talk to them, and even if you can not change their minds, at least try to expose them to the real world how every you can without harming what they believe. That's the best you can expect to do. And also keep in mind, that if they ask you to stay out of it completely, you should also do that, but at least at that point, you'll know you have tried to open their eyes, which is all anyone can do.

Okay, well, I think I've gone on enough now... so I'll wrap it up, and go get ready for work. I will be back to respond next time I have a chance, so feel free to point out the flaws in my logic, and tell me how I'm wrong, and how I'm right. I do prefure to have feed back when I toss out my throughts, just as when I toss out my original poetry, stories, and such... Be brutally honust, but please don't be petty, and take anything I say personally, I am not out to attack anyone. Thanks!

Saturn Girl

ps. I wanted to make a comment. someone mentioned that they wouldn't want to live with the guilt, shame, and mental scars of being raped.... I wanted to say that there is no reason for someone to feel guilty is she (or even he) is raped. The person who is the victum is by no streach of imagination, or reality, at fault for what happened, so there is no reason at all they should feel guilty. Anyone who tells a rape victum different is as bad as the person who raped the person in the first place. And I don't want any arguments saying that someone dressed in a short skirt, small top, and or has a well formed body is asking to be raped. Everyone has the right to be themselves, and just because the outside appearence shouts out for attention (good bad or otherwise) doesn't mean that person is asking to be taken, abused, and belittled. Rape was happening long before women were dressing in short skirts, small tops, and sugestive clothing, so that is not the reason that rape happens. Please please don't let anyone make you feel guilty if you end up as a victum of rape!

pps. please excuse any and all errors, typos, and such... I did not have time to go back and proof read before I posted, because I was running late for work. I hope everyone can read typo!

* I used she just to keep it down to one three letter word, and I do not want to start any arguments over if God is a he, a she, an it, or a them, or none of the above.... I don't know what God is, but I'll use she when I'm posting.

one thing about humen nacher, we feel gulty for stuff we shouldent a fact of life

I don't think Shanana meant that rape victims are guilty in any way. What I think she meant is that it's such a traumatic experience that the horrible feelings (They are there, and guilt is one of them, justified or not!) would be too much to bear for her.

--Cooper

I am not sure about the others, but as someone here who has posted things that could well be viewed as anti-christian, i feel that I should point out that some good freinds of mine are christian. the problem is with the ones who won't stop preaching at the wrong time, or who claim that their particular sect is the only one who could possibly be right. This is why a certain inconsistant poster got jumped on earlier.
As regards rape, feeling guilty is natural when you have been a victim, but the only thing that determines if you get raped is if you are the wrong sex, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. It is a crime of control, and very like bullying in it's motivation. It makes the rapist feel big by making the victim feel small.
The other problem with rape is that some people/religions actively make the problems worse due to intollerance. This is yet another case of the dependancy culture that most religions seem to foster (intentionally or not), and needs to be stamped out. Especially the the instances of vicars and other religious characters using the line "you are unclean for doing this, but if we pray enough together, we may make you less unclean". (alright, they are not usually quite that blatent, but if you listen to what they say, that is the message).

Wow... I'm surprised... I was expecting responces to the main part of my commentary, and the only responces I've gotten was my talking about how someone shouldn't feel guilty if she/he is raped.....

I know she wasn't saying they are guilty... but she said they do feel guilty, and you agree with that. And what I said is that no one has any reason to feel guilty if they're raped. The biggest problem with dealing with rape is we as a society can not do enough to prevent it, because so many women feel guilty when they are raped, and not enough people say that there isn't any reason for them to feel guilty. In fact, the majority of society seems to think that these people raped are guilty of deserving it due to the way they were dressed, the way they looked, and/or the way they acted, so that gives a lot of rape victums the idea that they are guilty, even though they really aren't. I think the best thing we can do is to help everyone understand that anyone raped is not guilty, and make it more likely more of the victums will step forward, and report the rape, helping to put a stop to the disgusting people who are doing this.

And I didn't miss the point she was trying to make... I doubt I could handle what I'd feel if I was raped, and I consider myself a pretty strong person.

But anyhow... If we're going to go off on a tagent about this topic, someone start a thread for it at my page, or something.... we're totally loosing the point of this thread... it's one thing if the topic evolves, and it's a totally different one to end up totally changing the subject.

Saturn Girl

I did respond to your main point. cooper was jumped on for being inconsistent, and although I did respond to the bit about rape, most of it was about how the reponse of the devout often makes a bad situation worse due to intollerence of others.

I saw that... I was just so long winded that I didn't see your post you'd just made before I posted my post. Sorry!

Saturn Girl

ps. I was also wandering, so I didn't see you responded to my responce 'til just now.

Back miles ago in this thread, someone commented on a situation where a priest refused to babtise a baby.

My father was (among other things) a clergyman, and he would get very despondent by people who - to all practical perposes - had no religion phoning up to "book the church to have the baby done".

He also got very despondent when the same thing happened for weddings, though that happens less now that the alternatives in the UK are not only Church or Registry office, but also include hotels and castles and other romantic places.

I do not know if he ever refused to baptise a child, but he certainly viewed it as a meaningless event to all practical purposes in many of the instances when he did it. (Not meaningless spiritually, just meaningless practially, I hasten to add).

agcB