h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Actually, the cartoon wasn't BANNED; it was dropped by the network because it was, indeed, not funny.

--Cooper

shurly it carnt be that bad..can it??

Oh yes. It's one of those affairs that thinks that just because it deals with "controversial" subject matter, it can get away with having one joke every ten minutes. I mean, the Devil even has the cliched fluffy demon sidekick, for Christ's sake.

Thoughts on stuff:

"What makes you think there is any sort of intelligence behind the design of the universe?"

Ever heard of Thoreau's watchmaker analogy? You go by a shop, and there's a watch sitting there in parts. You come back later, and there's an assembled watch. The pieces COULD have pulled themselves together, but it's more likely that there's a watchmaker.

Think about it. The universe has been here for what, 15 billion years or so? And look at the detail. It positively STINKS of intelligence.

"And if there is, why would your behavior be so important to it? After all, this planet and its inhabitants, especially its most powerful species, are just microcosms in the vast macrocosm of the universe. We like to puff ourselves up with self-importance, but really, why should this universe have been created for our benefit?"

I never said it was made for our benefit. Could be there are other sentient life-forms in the universe (For logical reasons, I think there probably aren't any in this galaxy at least.). My belief is that God created the universe for God. It's not that our behaviour is ESPECIALLY important; God can handle watching everything at once.

"That's why I hate religions... so egocentric. People should come to grips with how completely insignificant they really are. A little extra humility would serve us all well."

It's not a central belief of Xianity that humanity is the most important thing; rather, we believe God is the ultimate in better-than-man. And you think our universe is big!

"Look at the Jewish/Christian God - what a jealous b*****d! "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" - basically admitting that there are other Gods."

This isn't an admission of other gods as we think of them! You have to look at it historically: a god in that time period would have been something you made: a pillar, a statue, &c. The Greek-Roman-modern concept of a god is entirely different.

"Then he goes and drowns everthing bar Noah, his wife, his three sons and an assorted menagerie. And he puts the ten plagues on the Egyptians. A cruel God indeed..."

The thing is: the Xian belief is that we all deserve drowning, ten plagues, fire & brimstone, & whatever other curse you can think of. It's only through the grace of God that we don't get it. (sounds like a pretty humble thing to me)

--Cooper

I think three quarters of religion like alot of things (eg polatics and the media) is just sochal controle. a long time ago the people in power realised how outnumberd they where and set things up to controle the masses. formailes religion is one of them

Bob, you're the cleverest bob I 've ha d the pleshure of replying too.

Control. That is it.

That sorts organised religion out.

Society's a bit out of hand, lets scare the bejayzus out of em, with a set of rules that polarizes life, so that they go to Heaven if they're good, and Hell if they upset the moderators.

Dave the (clinic=ally insane) Goalkeeper

That's what organised religion has become, not what it's about.

I donno. All human institutions are subject to this sort of power-grubbing. That's why I don't *like* large organised religions.

One of the reasons I'm a Baptist (though that label in no way defines me; it's merely one set of beliefs I subscribe to).

I'd rather go the way of Thoreau (and, to some extent, Emerson) (yes, I know I use those two a lot, but, dammit, they're awesome!) and use nature as my church. But there is the element of social interaction with other believers, in my case mostly for the discussion of logical systems &c that relate to our common beliefs.

*sigh* Damned if you do; damned if you don't.

--Cooper

I wonder if there is an intelligence behind all this... Truth be told, random nature or supreme intelligence, both seem equally unlikely (or should I say, unlikely) to me- no matter which way you go, the fact that we're here at all is pretty amazing.
But assuming that there is in fact an intelligent being behind all this(and in saying that it is an intelligent being, are we ascribing it an individual personality? What would God be like to talk to?), and that it is permitting us to continue after what we call death, I find it difficult to believe that it would "damn" anybody.

Think about it: no one (or shall I say, very, very few) does wrong intentionally. Nine times out of ten, 99 out of a hundred, 999 out of a thousand, we commit wrong because we lack any definite idea of what is absolutely right (note that, if the universe was created by an intelligence, then morality must be in some sense absolute). We are born into this world and from birth to death the only authorities we have to rely on concerning morality are our fellow human beings, who we have no reason to trust more than ourselves. There are, of course, holy books and such, but once again, is it my fault if, out of the hundreds of holy books available, I happen to choose the wrong one, especially since a holy book is simply the preserved testimony of another fallible human being? This applies to most moral situations this side of the veil. If sin exists, then it must be a result of ignorance and we can therefore not be held eternally responsible for it. And if life is but a hundred years or so, maximum, and the afterlife is forever, then life is nothing but a dream. Does it make sense to hold someone responsible for a crime committed during a dream? I imagine death as being something like this vast awakening, wherein you are suddenly confronted w/ the answers to all those annoying questions and because of this, can't help bursting into laughter at the "you" you were but moments ago, ignorant as that being was.

Therefore, I posit that, assuming an afterlife, morality is relative this side of the veil, absolute on the other, and that therefore these two have little to do with one another.

Sorry if this post was too long.

-The Fro Boy

I wonder if there is an intelligence behind all this... Truth be told, random nature or supreme intelligence, both seem equally unlikely (or should I say, unlikely) to me- no matter which way you go, the fact that we're here at all is pretty amazing.
But assuming that there is in fact an intelligent being behind all this(and in saying that it is an intelligent being, are we ascribing it an individual personality? What would God be like to talk to?), and that it is permitting us to continue after what we call death, I find it difficult to believe that it would "damn" anybody.

Think about it: no one (or shall I say, very, very few) does wrong intentionally. Nine times out of ten, 99 out of a hundred, 999 out of a thousand, we commit wrong because we lack any definite idea of what is absolutely right (note that, if the universe was created by an intelligence, then morality must be in some sense absolute). We are born into this world and from birth to death the only authorities we have to rely on concerning morality are our fellow human beings, who we have no reason to trust more than ourselves. There are, of course, holy books and such, but once again, is it my fault if, out of the hundreds of holy books available, I happen to choose the wrong one, especially since a holy book is simply the preserved testimony of another fallible human being? This applies to most moral situations this side of the veil. If sin exists, then it must be a result of ignorance and we can therefore not be held eternally responsible for it. And if life is but a hundred years or so, maximum, and the afterlife is forever, then life is nothing but a dream. Does it make sense to hold someone responsible for a crime committed during a dream? I imagine death as being something like this vast awakening, wherein you are suddenly confronted w/ the answers to all those annoying questions and because of this, can't help bursting into laughter at the "you" you were but moments ago, ignorant as that being was.

Therefore, I posit that, assuming an afterlife, morality is relative this side of the veil, absolute on the other, and that therefore these two have little to do with one another.

Sorry if this post was too long.

-The Fro Boy

Ooops, sorry about the double post. Accident. New here. Don't beat me

-The Very Embarassed Fro Boy

The poblem with being offline when you are involved in a discussion like this is that when you get back there are so many points do discuss.

Shanana - Posting 71

Karma and Reincarnation - I dunno about animals. All I am saying is that for me, karma and reincarnation answer more questions than they ask. Personally I beleive that spirit is spirit, I am not particularly spiecist about it. Spirits incarnate as humans to deal with issues like free choice and morality. They incarnate as other species, or remain spirit for a while, to deal with other issues. It is difficult to be spirit in a material world - maybe animals are practicing having bodies to deal with. I dont know. I am not presenting this as a truth, merely as a garden of ideas where I feel comfortable hanging out.

Rape and Murder - just a comment here - you made a pretty large assumption that rape inevitably creates life-long scars of guilt, horror, and emotional trauma. As I said, that is a pretty large assumption. I have not been raped, thanks to your ultimate supreme being of choice, but a number of my friends have been. I have not discussed their experiences in detail, but it is clear to me that while some of them have been significanlty scarred in the way you mention, others of them have healed or grown past the experience.

Colonel Sellars - Posting 72

Ultimate meaning in life - about 8 months ago I started asking people why they are here on the planet. I am here to learn, and to have fun. If it isn't fun, but I am still learning, that is ok by me. I assumed it was the same for most people. Au Contraire! One of my best friends is here to teach, another friend is here to facilitate, another is on a spiritual quest, his wife is here to dance, another is here to love and take risks. And so it goes on. What does it for me won't do it for you. Just another example of how different we all are.

WACC0 - Posting 78

Completely agree when you say: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." Actually that is pretty fundamental to my point. People who are convinced they are Right with a Capital Right scare the living s**t out of me...

Cooper - Posting 84

I'm right with you about god being able to handle doing more than just watch us. He's infinite, right? (Assuming he exists, of course). Where I part company is the judgementalism of your last line: "The thing is: the Xian belief is that we all deserve drowning, ten plagues, fire & brimstone, & whatever other curse you can think of. It's only through the grace of God that we don't get it." Arrrrgggghhhh! I DON'T beleive in a Jealous and Judgemental God. (If it does it for you, that's fine, just dont expect it to do it for me).

Fro Boy - Posting 88

Morality being relative this side of the veil, and absolute the otherside... *serious food for thought here - goes away to mull this one over for an aeon or two....*

Anyone here read "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett? Lots and lots of interesting stuff - like the power of a god is in direct proportion to the power of the belief in him (back to Bob's social control, here) and how religions start and are changed by their beleivers.

agcB

An aside: how many fingers have you got Ben?

Oh, the ususal 13...

agcB

blimey you guys need to buy yourselves copies of Black and White so that you can act out all your ideologies on little sprites rather than casting ideas into the world ! Just think about the fact that just about all conflicts are based around Religion and many acts of terrorism are commited by fundamentalists in the name of religion . I am a firm believer in staying completely irreligious with my own code of values not beholden to anyone elses ideals !

What is 'Black and White'?

agcB

A game for the pc made by electronic Arts it is a God Sim for more info visit [URL removed by moderator] ( sorry for tardy response playing some golf , now that is a religion to some !

I've got an idea - when we type URLs, we should leave a space somewhere so that it's obvious what it is, but the moderator doesn't pick it up - like this (hope it works):

[URL r e m o v e d by
m o d e r a t o r]

Hooray!

hmm not as if it is a particularly threatening url anyway just a pointer for Ben who enquired what i was going on about

[URL removed by moderator]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
!