h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

last message was in response to 3 dots. Anyway the sun has come out
so I think I'll try and make use of it

OK OK you two...get into opposite sides of the classroom and calm down a bit...

It's alright, I think they've sorted it out.

It would be interesting to find out, not that it'll make any difference. It just reminds me of my boyfriend's boss who cut their hour dinner break to 45mins and then makes them 'make up' the 'extra' quarter of an hour by staying on till four instead of 3:45. I tried explaining to him that this just means he's doing an overall extra half an hour a day, but by then everyone had accepted it and didn't twig. but their boss is a nightmare. Even his own son has warned people not to trust him!

The school should not ask for this money - it is wrong ~ plain and simple.

The authority does not base its funding on classes of 30, this happens to be the most cost effective class size - ie maximum.

I am chair of the resource committee at a school which has just applied for academy status, this is a school which borders an estate in the top 10% most economically challenged areas in the country, so it's not rich, but we try to help our parents cope with the cost of funding their child's education.

This letter is a crude attempt to buy their way up the league tables, not through good teaching, but therough financial power, and is exactly what is wrong with the education system in this country - especially in the primary sector. (Though the defensive nature of the unions does not help either because it preserves bad teachers.)

If you want to understand what's going on at your school (on this issue or about anything else that gives you concern), you could try contacting the Governing Body. Sometimes they're a bit of a token group, unfortunately, but often they're actively involved in outreach initiatives like fundraising.

If you want to help make things as good as they can be, you could also consider volunteering to join them.

Just for context - a typical private prep school is going to demand ~£10,000/year

There are no positions available as parent governors for a few years - we already asked.

This is a small village school that was built to accomodate small classes (max 20). This year they have been forced to increase the class size in all years to 26 (they had kids on the waiting list for a place in every year) because they couldn't make ends meet with classes of between 20 and 23 pupils. Up until now they have been employing 5 and a half teachers for years 1-6, with year 5 being split for half the week having half the class being taught with year 6 and the other half with year 4. Parents have made it clear to the school that those who go 'up' to year 6 are happy, those who go back 'down' to year 4 are not so they want to have the money to employ another half teacher so that year five need not be split.

In addition there was a change in the rules so that new children may start school the septenber of the school year they turn 5, so my son starts in september, where previously he would have started after Easter next year so they have had to build a classroom to accomodate these children all starting together who have to follow Early Years Foundation stage, and employ an additional teacher for them.

So now the school needs to employ 7 teachers rather than 5.5. They argue, in their letter, that the LEA funds at a level where each pupil gets x in funding and 30x is enough to employ a teacher. As we only have 26x parents need to make up the difference ("voluntarily").

And finally, this is a generally affluent area, so pupils in the school do not attract the Pupil Premium, ie there aren't any on free school meals, so while Nick Clegg argues that he has managed to increase funding to schools, this is only true in poorer areas and in villages like mine the effect is a large cut. All schools in the area have had a general cut in their level of funding thanks to Cameron and his chums (who would no doubt be happy with the Big Society approach of everyone having to pay for their childs education directly) which is not then made up by any kids getting the extra funding.

It is good that schools with deprived children get extra funding but it does leave schools like ours in the position we're in now.

Twiglet, I hadn't realised you were objecting to the form of the request rather than the content - we have had one letter so far, and two requests in person.

I wasn't just objecting to the form. The content is equally objectionable.

"they have been forced to increase the class size [...] because they couldn't make ends meet"

This smacks of head-in-the-sand ineptitude.

"they have had to build a classroom to accomodate these children"

Fair enough.

"They argue, in their letter, that the LEA funds at a level where each pupil gets x in funding and 30x is enough to employ a teacher. As we only have 26x parents need to make up the difference "

Hang on.

This was your third choice school. They'd have 4% LESS funding if you weren't sending your kid there. I repeat, they should be damn grateful to have you.

Also: they had kids on a waiting list for a place in every year... so you're saying they're DELIBERATELY sizing their classes so that they can't afford to staff them properly. And this is your fault because...?

They're looking for a bailout for their incompetence. Call their bluff on the "voluntary". You're already paying them. Remember, that line about "the LEA funds at a level..." - that's YOUR money. Don't be bullied, and put it to them in those terms.

Kelli, you said this school had a waiting list. So therefore it's oversubscribed. It's not that they are a school that *can't* fill its classes up to the expected 30.

In that case, how can they justify artificially keeping their class sizes low, and then expecting parents to pay up to compensate?

I think that's the bit I don't get. They are deliberately choosing to switch the funding burden from the state to the parents.

Mmmm.

It is a tiny school, they can't really fit the extra kids in that they have got starting in september - the hall isn't big enough for assemblies, lunchtimes etc - health and safety dictates they can't do any whole-school activities in there once the extras in each year, and the rising fives all start in september. The buildings are sized for small classes, as are the classrooms and other facilities. That, and the fact that they *do* do well in their ofsted reports (as a result of having smaller classes) is why they are resisting going up to a class size of 30.

Twigster, it is the fact that they wouldn't have less funding if we didn't go - another kid would take our place as it is oversubscribed.

...oh and just because it is our thrid choice, that doesn't mean it wasn't first choice for people in the next town. 3 schools in our village, this was our third choice out of those three and initially we didn't get any of our 3 choices, we got the next nearest school which wasn't oversubscribed (ie the closest nightmare of a school in the nearest big town that nobody else wanted, for good reason) so are pretty pleased to get a place in the school in the village.

I think that part of this is that in previous years this school would likely have been first choice in the village, with HT as #2 and our catchment CR as #3. So previously most of the poeple getting a place would have been desperately grateful, and therefore happy to cough up whatever was asked. This is probably the first time they have ever had reluctant parents.

CR has had something of a meteoric rise since being in special measures a few years ago, has a fabulous new head and is now #1 or #2 on most peoples lists. This means that in spite of being in catchment we didn't get a place there.

"It is a tiny school, they can't really fit the extra kids in that they have got starting in september..."

Aaaaah, sorry, missed that bit (although I do remember you mentioning it before).

So funding is dispensed based on a measure of 30, even though the building cannot house that many in a class.

Yeah, this is complex. Ick.

"health and safety dictates they can't do any whole-school activities "

Yeah. If there really WAS a health and safety risk to the small sizes of the rooms, I can guarantee there would be no problem securing funding to fix it. What you describe perfectly describes the 'elfnsafetyinnit excuses you get when people don't *want* to do something.

"they are resisting going up to a class size of 30"

Fair enough. It is their choice to do so. You've chosen a state education for your child. That is your choice. One of the consequences of that choice is that you are already paying for the school and have been doing for years, so you don't need to pay any more.

Don't be bullied, say no, politely but firmly, and don't feel guilt even for a second.

No I think it the fire regs that dictate how many people you are allowed to have in a particular room - is the same in all venues IIRC from when I was planning my wedding.

I understand why they are in need of cash, but have been very rattled by the repeated requests before we've started there. I'm going to have a word with the head of the parent-governors to tell him how this comes across to parents of new starters.

I think a Quiet Word with management is a good idea - it's conceivable the governing body doesn't know about the direct appeals.

What prannies of the past built a school with classrooms to fit 20?! Probably the same ones that designed a brand new hall for our school *that can't hold the entire school simultaneously* when the space was available for a larger one.

I didn't appreciate space was the issue at your school (although I'd be interested to see the net capacity assessment). We've had a similar issue - although the real pinchpoint was the cloakrooms, because it's possible to manage corridor congestion with one-way systems, and use of the hall by splitting KS1 and KS2 use (so, for example, when there's a KS1 class assembly KS2 don't see it, and then the parents can fit in. And the KS2 end of year show is taking place at the secondary school in the next village - Osh is over there on an all-day rehearsal today).

Most classrooms need to be able to cope with not only all the children, but one or two classroom assistants as well. So that's potentially 33 bodies in space designed for 21. You can squeeze more in at KS1 level, because the actual bodies are smaller, and they use smaller chairs and tables. But it can be a real problem at KS2, especially in year 6.

That said, our admission number is 27, but Sic's year was 34 in number. They coped with the lack of space and they did well.

Twiglet, funding for schools is part of the whacky world of local government. The financial year runs, as it does for all local government, from April to March. The school year runs from September to August. The funding for the *financial* year is calculated on the pupil census carried out at the end of the previous January. The number of pupils in the school at that point may or may not be the same as the number of pupils in the school the following September (ie for the second half of the financial year). In this case funding was probably calculated on 140 pupils (20 x 7) and from September there will be 146.

Have to say that six pupils for half a financial year shouldn't make that much difference though. And not all of the funding is based on number of pupils, but I don't know the exact formula used by kelli's LA (I find it hard enough keeping up with the formula used by my own). It's also a bit late to be appealing for money - the school's running out of time to sort out its classroom structure for next year now. The key issue here does seem to be that the classroom space means there's not much flexibility about classroom structure - six larger classes, which would be cheaper to staff, won't work in the available space. Only I find that slightly hard to believe if the admission number has been increased - in a few years time, *all* the classes will have 26 children packed into too-small classrooms. Presumably the governing body has a programme of building works on the table to address this.

Parents *always* moan about split years but it's inevitable in a village school. We have sometimes used a part-split, where the year was split for mornings but together for afternoons - which means only needing to employ half a teacher. We also bundle classes together for some subjects (PE, dance) which releases staff for other teaching.

Mol

Perhaps all village schools should be closed? Too small to cope with
the vicissitudes of year to year changes in regulations, funding and
low (bare minimum) staff. It seems that this village school has yet
to be converted into a mass producing industrial unit with
associated economy of scales and spread of risks.

Anyway Kelli I think direct contact with the school concerning your
impressions is the way forward. You will probably find they are
ordinary people like you and me .

The year 4 and 6 classroms must be big enough as they do split years now so will have (say) 21 + 10ish kids - newer classrooms are bigger, older ones smaller. They are increasing *every* year to 26 simultaneously so if there were say 22 kids in each existing year there will now be an extr 4 bodies per class.

You are right about the academic vs financial year funding - census will provide funding for 7x22 (154) but from september there will be 7x26 (182) in the school. I think this is heavily contributing to the demands for cash.

I, along with four or five other kids, got sent up a year from year five to six because my school had too many in year five for the classroom size. Well, I assume that's what it was as we were slotted back in the next year. It's possible four (or three) of us were sacrificed in order to remove The Troublemker from his peergroup. We spent a lot of time in the library doing projects. The hessian backed scrapbooks I could show you.

The Star is supposed to be starting nursery in Sept. This is pre-compulsory education. In the welcome pack I was amused to note that were were being asked to cough up thirty pounds per parent as our voluntary contribution. They claim is is for registering as a church school with the diocese.

To be honest, in some ways I'd rather they just came right out and said 'giveusthemoney' than expect me to put in hours of effort and also pay out on fundraisers. Laziness is ever my besetting sin. Of course, they probably do that too. Still, 250 is a fair old whack.

Is it this school or someone else I know that is also claiming that the school cannot function without volunteer support in the classsrooms from the mums? I found that more gobsmackingly cheeky to be honest.

I would expect the LA to stump up under those circs, to be honest. If our start-of-year figures are significantly different from the census figures then we get a top-up for the second half of the financial year. And 28 extra kids is a huge difference. The LA is saving cash by not having to transport those kids somewhere else (and transport costs a *lot*) so it ought to be able to do this.

I think I'd be inclined to go on a bit of a letter writing spree. Start with your local councillor. He/she will probably refer it to the education portfolio holder and then the next thing you'll know it will be sorted. Well, that's what happened with my lollipop lady letter

Mol