A Conversation for Ask h2g2
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Riding Shotgun Started conversation Oct 28, 2003
While I can't get enough of what the citizens of the world think of my homeland, this thread has a more specific purpose.
As well as being a regular reader of h2g2, I also write a column titled "Riding Shotgun" for www.crunchable.net - an essay/nonfiction site peopled by teachers, journalists and English majors with too much time on their hands.
I'd like to write an article on how America, its government, and its citizens are perceived by the citizens of other nations, most especially regarding the War in Iraq, the War on Terror, the War of Ideas - whatever it's being referred to as today.
If you're wondering what my columns are usually like, check out the archive on crunchable, especially a column titled "War of Words," which I wrote this past spring that deals with the then-upcoming Iraq conflict.
If you respond, and say something interesting, expect to be quoted (on, off, or under the record). Never fear, I'm a journalist by profession, albeit with an unhealthy penchant for politics and profanity.
Here's a few specific questions to start things off:
What do you think of Bush and a) the way he deals with the other nations of the world/the U.N.? b) the way he's dealing with Iraq? c) his haircut?
How has your perception of America changed since the events of Sept. 11? Has any sympathy evaporated in light of the U.S.'s actions?
Do you agree with the way the U.S. has "handled" Iraq? If so, Why? If not, Why not, and what do you believe the American public should do about it?
Thank you, and I hope you'll respond. If you have something to contribute, but don't want to post it here, you can e-mail me at [email protected]
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Oct 28, 2003
Thanks for the invitation, Riding Shotgun. I have a lot to say, let me collect my thoughts... Ah, that's better.
Bush. He and his Pappy are disasters, no two ways about it. At first, I thought he was just stupid, now I am afraid he isn't, that he just gives that impression because people will think he's harmless. His ignorance about the rest of the world is breathtaking! Also, I am sorry, but he *does* look like a chimp...
September 11th. I remember how shocked I felt, we watched TV all day. Peter Jennings looking very frayed by the end of the day. But my sympathy *has* largely evaporated, sorry. The bombing of Afghanistan on 8th October 2001 dealt with that. I don't think there was ever justification for bombing Afghanistan, and Iraq had *nothing to do with September 11th*!
How America is managing Iraq... well, as Gwynne Dyer said in an article on CBC (Canadian Broadcasting)the way things are going there'll be hell to pay. Rumsfeld, Paul Bremner, Wolfowitz - none of them seem to see that it's not just a few Syrian or Iranian terrorists who 'hate freedom' doing these attacks, but angry Iraqis who don't want to be occupied!
American cultural hegemony. In NZ, we by and large speak American. Many Maori and PI kids identify with LA gang-bangers. This is not good. (See my guide entry on New Zealand English)
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Apparition™ (Mourning Empty the best uncle anyone could wish for) Posted Oct 29, 2003
I wasn't sure wether I was gpoing to come to this thread until I was catching up on the backlog on the WWWA thread and I took that as an invitation. "How has your perception of America changed since the events of Sept. 11? Has any sympathy evaporated in light of the U.S.'s actions?" There was a good article in the washington post before the Iraq war about how the 'goodwill' toward america in the aftermath of the WTC attacks, to use a local expression, has been p*ssed away by bush. My perception of America follows with the sentiment expressed by the Washington Post to somedegree with the added fustration in seeing the large amount of support that shrub's actions have had. As for the other two questions. Exhaustive replies have already been tested in these two threads and if I were to write pages, I still would not have made apt summary of them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/F122145?thread=248834 oops, sorry, I've unsubscribed from the other thread but the above will give you the gist
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Cyzaki Posted Oct 29, 2003
Just a note, when I say 'America' here I in no way mean each individual American. Americans on their own are often quite nice...
I've never really liked America, as it seems to decide for itself what is 'right' and then impose that on everyone else. America is the dictator of the world, or getting that way, so although I feel massive sympathy for everyone even remotely affected by the September 11th attacks, you can *almost* understand why terrorists feel so strongly about America. The fact that GWB then starts blowing up countries that had nothing to do with the attack (like Iraq) doesn't really help matters. I think America has an awful lot of work to do if it wants to be respected world wide, and the unfortunate thing is that this bad feeling often gets projected onto the actual American people, and people begin disliking them for the country they live in.
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Synthetic42 Posted Oct 29, 2003
I'm an American and I agree that my country should stop putting it's gigantic superpower nose were it doesn't belong. I'm also very tired of seeing propaganda on television. The propaganda isn't as obvious as in say, WW2 Germany or Russia 20 years ago, but it's there. Freedom is not a priveledge that is only given in the US. I have never left the US but, I'm fairly certain that there is at least a couple other countries that will let me own a gun, speak my mind, and live there all at the same time. They make it sound as if in the event that I were to travel anywhere outside the US, I would instantly be imprisoned, beaten, and starved.
Dont get me wrong, I like it here. But more and more it seems that the US government is scared that every single American citizen is going to get tired of being ridiculed by every other country in the world and just pack up and move to Canada.
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Oct 29, 2003
I'm generalising here.
Europeans think of Americans as clueless gun-toters. With the exception of Woody Allen and a few other gifted individuals, you don't understand real cynicism or subtle humour. Your ignorance of the world around you, or even of the poorer parts of your own country makes you the laughing stock of the world. At least it would be funny if it wasn't for your damnable desire to 'improve' the world around you, no matter what the world itself thinks.
America's interference in the democratic process began long before either of the Bushes, but continues unabated.
(Sorry, that was extreme, but it forms the basis of what many Europeans including myself think).
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Apparition™ (Mourning Empty the best uncle anyone could wish for) Posted Oct 29, 2003
"I have never left the US but, I'm fairly certain that there is at least a couple other countries that will let me own a gun, speak my mind, and live there all at the same time. "
I don't want to step on the toes of the person who started this thread but. What does gun ownership have to do with democracy?
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Queeglesproggit - Keeper of the evil Thingite Avon Lady Army and Mary Poppins's bag of darkness.. Posted Oct 29, 2003
Gun ownership = freedom to own a gun, because you've democratically elected someone that will allow you to own a gun. Simple.
I don't think this is a thread for "what's that got to do with that?" type questions... as those will quickly lead into arguments. This seems just to be asking for statements of opinion.
I agree that the goodwill towards the US has been largely thrown away. I felt very bad about the September 11th attacks, more because the US would never have expected that sort of thing to happen. However, it now seems to be used as an excuse to declare war on Afghanistan and Iraq, and soon it seems Saudi Arabia and North Korea. Trouble is, there doesn't seem to be anyone strong enough over there to lead the people into saying "No".
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Cheerful Dragon Posted Oct 29, 2003
What do I think of Bush? I try not to. He should never have been elected and there are people out here who aren't sure that he was. His election was a fiasco that put the whole U.S. electoral process in a bad light for the rest of the world. If Al Gore had been elected, we *probably* wouldn't be at war with Iraq. As for Bush's haircut, the man's an eejit, IMHO. His haircut has nothing to do with anything.
His attitude to the rest of the world is very U.S.-centred. Other countries and their opinions of him and his policies don't matter to him. Look at his refusal to ratify the Kyoto environmental agreement. He knows it would hit large chunks of U.S. industry pretty hard, and he relies on them for election funding.
He has dealt with Iraq as he saw fit, purely because it's an oil-rich country and the U.S. needs oil. "Weapons of Mass Destruction" were just an excuse to go in. There is no evidence that there are, or ever were, such weapons. When the 'inspectors' fail to find them, the U.S. will claim that they have been moved or destroyed, just to save face and try to keep public opinion.
When the Twin Towers were hit on Sept. 11, I was shocked and horrified. Suicide bombers are one thing; suicide bombers who are prepared to take thousands with them are another. But the actions of the U.S. since that date have destroyed any sympathy I felt for them. They haven't achieved anything with their "War on Terror"; if anything they've made matters worse.
As you can see from my previous comments, I am *not* happy with the way the U.S. handled Iraq. But my main gripe is the way people in the U.S. have reacted to people who disagreed with Bush's actions and statements, and the statements of his ministers. Changing the name of 'French fries' to 'Freedom fries' was just petty, but U.S. citizens (Tim Robbins, The Dixie Chicks and others) have been vilified for daring to say that they feel that Bush is wrong in what he has done. The U.S. is a country that prides itself on freedom of thought and freedom of speech, for crying out loud. So, from that point of view, it looks like a fair portion of the U.S. public doesn't *want* to do anything about it. Those that do are probably afraid to speak out. I'm not sure how long it is until the next election, but the best thing the U.S. public can do is elect somebody else who isn't such a warmonger and who can take a wider view of things.
All this thinking of Bush and Iraq has made me moody and grumpy. I'm off have a nice cup of .
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Cheerful Dragon Posted Oct 29, 2003
PS Not all Europeans think of Americans as clueless gun-toters who don't understand subtle humour. That was a sweeping generalization from Gnomon that I cannot agree with. However, I will agree that the apparent U.S. ignorance of (and/or willingness to ignore) the rest of the world is shocking and shameful.
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Riding Shotgun Posted Oct 29, 2003
I hate to make this any more complicated, but I've been bouncing around on some other threads and ran into several conspiracy theory discussions regarding how much Bush knew about 9/11 and when he knew it?
Are conspiracy theories about 9/11 prevalent in Europe/Canada/Australia/everywhere else?
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Synthetic42 Posted Oct 29, 2003
The engineers of th world trade center towers said that the impact of the planes would not have been enough to drop the towers. they also said that the burning jet fuel melted the steel beams. the fuel in the planes burns a about 1700 degrees F. Steel melts at about 5000 degrees F.
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Riding Shotgun Posted Oct 29, 2003
Okay, Synthetic. Then how/why did the Towers collapse?
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
MMF - Keeper of Mustelids, with added P.M.A., is now in a relationship. Posted Oct 29, 2003
*What Do You Think About The U.S.?*
Personally I try not to, although here in the UK, our Media follow Bush in the same way as puppy-dog Blair!
I used to admire the US and its people up to and including the Gulf War, when dear ol' Pappy Bush kicked the Iraquis where it hurt. Unfortunately, as per usual ,it was done half-cocked, and the 'coup de grace' was not delivered. GB sulked about this from then til now.
Along comes GB jnr who gets into power via a dodgy dimple in a ballot paper. The general comment over here at the time was 'Someone is going to get their a***s whooped'.
After Sept. 11, when the majority of the world felt for the American peoples, we Brits were surprised at GB jnr's restraint, as we thought he'd be off like a whippett!!!!
However Pappa GB realized 'Here is a chance to get the job finished once and for all' and having drip-fed GB jnr with vitriol the occassion would not be long in coming.
When he did go, the hype and spin had convinced a sizable proportion of the British and American populace that it was the right thing do, with many reasons why. It was then a massive spring-board into Iraq, and head to Bagdhad with all guns blazing.
Subsequently GB jnr and his lap-dog, self-proclaimed Presiden Blair, have been found wanting in every department. The worst part has been GB jnr's attitude to all other nations, as though he has been given the God-given charge to be 'Defender of the Universe'.
If America could remove the plank from its eye before worrying about the mote in its neighbour, life would be more comfortable. Why should Iran be more dangerous if it had Nuclear weapons, than the US is now.
"If you develop Nukes, we're goin' to bomb the hell out of you, coz we can and we don't care. "
Who is the worst? How is the US better than China or Iran, when it has Guantanamo Bay and Death Row? How can that be argued reasonably, while condemning others?
Also I find the Parochial attitude of some of it's citizens hard to swallow. I have been told only 1 in 4 Americans hold a passport, of which 1 in 10 has actually been to a non-US country. Of the ones without a Passport, the majority haven't even left their own state!!!Also the US Press and Movie Media only seem to see to the extent of the US border. When Prezza Blair had his heart murmer, what was the Press coverage? virtually nil, and on page 7.
In fairness, the non-parochial types who do use their Passports and visit Europe are very pleasant and friendly types, and we welcome them. They show more courage by flying here, than many of the regular American fliers.
I know that all is not great here in the UK, but I hope we strive for a more balanced viewpoint on life in spite of President Blair imposing his will on everyone via his diminishing band of Lackeys.
All in all, the general citizens of the US are fine. Like the UK it is their leader and his acolytes and minions that are damaging to the Country. Maybe an unjustified attack like that imposed on Iraq could be the solution!!!
US UK
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
anhaga Posted Oct 29, 2003
kerosene, the prime constituent of jet fuel, while it has a fairly low flash point, can have a cumbustion temperature up over 4000 degrees. (think about book paper: as every Bradbury fan knows, its kindling point is Farenheit 451; but set a library on fire and see how hot it gets.)
steel, generally, depending on the alloy, has a melting point lower than pure iron, so we're talking well below 2000 degrees. http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
You can have the world...I'll create my own. Posted Oct 29, 2003
Think this thread is rapidly turning into a Bush thread.
First thing I am going to say is that I think Della is wrong in Post 2 when she says that the sympathy America had over Sept 11 was lost with the bombing of Afghanistan.Although I do agree with her that it shouldnt have happened.After all,what was it going to achieve?
Revenge?
Because as it was so publicised,Osama Bin Laden and co. would have been well out of the way.The only people guaranteed to be killed was the average Afghan.And they did not bring down the WTC.This really did smack of revenge and from what I can see,to this day,it achieved nothing.
As for Iraq,well maybe people supported Bush because they believed him.Maybe British people believed Blair for the same reason.
Weapons of mass destruction that were all over Iraq and were ready to be deployed.Something had to be done?Or did it?
As the Hutton inquiry over here in Britain has shown,we were never told the truth about these weapons.And the reason why is simple.
There was no way Bush and Blair could have justified going to war by saying "We THINK he has these weapons"
Both America and Britain are very slowly paying a big price for this war.With more soldiers killed every day and still these WMD have not been found.Maybe they havent been found because they are simoply not there.And if they arent there,then what justification do Bush and Blair have for sending the men and women of the armed forces into battle.I find it hard to believe that either George Bush or Tony Blair will ever apologise or admit they were wrong.But there has to come a time when the search comes to an end.And at that time,it should also be the end for Tony and George.Lets hope that happens before we lose more lives.Cause they both have so much blood on thier hands already.
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Oetzi Oetztaler....Anti Apartheid Posted Oct 29, 2003
Damn it I've forgotton the name for the suspension of the floors in the twin towers. Essentially they were truss beams with 60deg struts I think from memory. As hanger says steels turns plastic quickly beyond yellow heat. The problem was that the steel did not have adequate insulation, I believe. That system will not be used again.
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
Oetzi Oetztaler....Anti Apartheid Posted Oct 29, 2003
For what it's worth here is my opinion on the US.
I love you all!
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
MMF - Keeper of Mustelids, with added P.M.A., is now in a relationship. Posted Oct 29, 2003
Oetzi Oetztaller
try http://civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php
explains design, build and failure.
Key: Complain about this post
What Do You Think About The U.S.?
- 1: Riding Shotgun (Oct 28, 2003)
- 2: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Oct 28, 2003)
- 3: Apparition™ (Mourning Empty the best uncle anyone could wish for) (Oct 29, 2003)
- 4: Cyzaki (Oct 29, 2003)
- 5: Synthetic42 (Oct 29, 2003)
- 6: Gnomon - time to move on (Oct 29, 2003)
- 7: Apparition™ (Mourning Empty the best uncle anyone could wish for) (Oct 29, 2003)
- 8: Queeglesproggit - Keeper of the evil Thingite Avon Lady Army and Mary Poppins's bag of darkness.. (Oct 29, 2003)
- 9: Cheerful Dragon (Oct 29, 2003)
- 10: Cheerful Dragon (Oct 29, 2003)
- 11: Riding Shotgun (Oct 29, 2003)
- 12: Synthetic42 (Oct 29, 2003)
- 13: Riding Shotgun (Oct 29, 2003)
- 14: MMF - Keeper of Mustelids, with added P.M.A., is now in a relationship. (Oct 29, 2003)
- 15: Oetzi Oetztaler....Anti Apartheid (Oct 29, 2003)
- 16: anhaga (Oct 29, 2003)
- 17: You can have the world...I'll create my own. (Oct 29, 2003)
- 18: Oetzi Oetztaler....Anti Apartheid (Oct 29, 2003)
- 19: Oetzi Oetztaler....Anti Apartheid (Oct 29, 2003)
- 20: MMF - Keeper of Mustelids, with added P.M.A., is now in a relationship. (Oct 29, 2003)
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