h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>which pointed out that 'literary' types are quite happy to parade their total ignorance of anything scientific as if it were a badge of honour...

I have suffered from this because I'm reasonable at maths (I can differentiate and integrate if necessary). You should see the looks I get when I advance the theory that it's just as bad to be mathematically 'illiterate' (for want of a better word) as it is to be literally illiterate.

They refuse to accept that they're missing just as much by not knowing maths as they would be by not being widely read.

Richard reckons that the one subject that should be compulsory for all teenagers is Economics. If taught correctly, this tells you how the world works - probably even more important than History or Geography, especially the way they are taught in many schools.

I also can differentiate and integrate, do mental arithmetic, long division without a calculator. I am also quite well read. I guess it depends on what you mean my 'mathematically illiterate'. Everybody should be able to do the basics without a calculator, but why would they need to differentiate and integrate if their job didn't require it. Similarly, everybody should be able to read to a reasonable standard, but that doesn't mean they should all go out and buy great works of literature.

"Everybody should be able to do the basics without a calculator, ... Similarly, everybody should be able to read to a reasonable standard, ..."

Exactly. I only mentioned the bit about calculus to kind of define what I meant by being reasonable at maths. I just think that there's a double standard in that if you say that you can't do basic mental arithmetic, no-one will bat an eyelid, but if you say you don't know what a noun is, people will think you're stupid.

Incidentally, how do you do long division _with_ a calculator?

What is the conflict here?

I'm joining late and its hard to see what the original argument is, but is there not room for both generalists and specialists, and the Arts vs Science thing is old hat.

I know I'm a generalist - I don't have the patience to learn a great deal about one subject. I know lots of very clever people who prefer to focus on one subject and are brilliant in that field but are not interested in knowing any more about other subjects than they need. Quite often I have to sort out their computers for them!

People would get very cross if they were expected to read a manual of art history before they could look at a painting,I fact a lot of modern art is dismissed as crap - because it is not instantly understood. However you could say thatany technology which requires you to read a huge manual before you can use it as a tool could justifiably be dismissed as crap

(I've read manuals for both and my own view is that there is good and crap on both sides and a little knowledge never hurts )

The division between art and science seems prety artificial. I've a degree in History and Philosophy and program computers for a living
but I am not sure if that makes me an Artist or a Scientist.

Ah! The old Topic Drift again!

I think it's having a general pop at those who would deride people for thinking that Shakespeare wrote 'Ode to a Nightingale', but who would be perfectly happy to parade their inability to use technology as something that is somehow admirable.

Another example I've just thought of:

Recently, (within the last year anyway) there was a story on the news about the decline in standards in Maths in UK schools. On Radio 5, the responsible government minister was being interviewed about it. As a last throwaway question, he was asked 'What's 6 times 7?'

'56' he said. He didn't realise he'd said anything wrong until the interviewer laughed. It didn't ruin his credibility (although it did with me), and as far as I know, he is still the Government Minister responsible for the education of children.

This is the problem. Lip service is paid to the idea that we should all be able to do our times tables, etc., but the ministers responsible can't. I reckon much more fuss would have been made if the question had been 'Who wrote 'Ode to a Nightingale'?' and he'd answered 'Shakespeare'

Maybe the problem isn't whether people have memorised 'this' or 'that'; it's that we seem to be systematically eliminating the ability to THINK. ( To troubleshoot involves thought, so call a helpline when your computer isn't plugged in and therefore won't work). On the other hand, the Renaissance was many moons ago; one can't know everything anymore...
I do find it apaling how peepl spel, tho - not that I'm elitist...
PLT, Mick.

I think Mick & Hoppa Canuck have hit the nail on the head. The American writer Bill Bryson has termed this the "London, England" syndrome, after reading in American papers placing the country as well as city as if the readers may not know.

Other examples include "and in Albamy today they had 12 inches of snow, that's about a foot" and "owing to wind and rain the sphinx is eroded by three feet in just three hundred years - That's a rate of a foot a century"

Bt spoon-feeding the public with everything they require, is it a wonder they stop thinking and demand instructions on how to insert disks or plug PCs in? Or indeed need all the bizare instructions listed by some of us last year here; http://www.h2g2.com/A159374

CH

I'm all for I.C.A.R.U.S.! A friend working at an info booth in Banff was asked, "How do they make the lakes so green?" They went away perfectly satisfied after he explained that the Parks Service drained the lakes each spring, painted the bottoms, then re-filled them...
PLT, Mick.

I recently saw a job advert in the paper which included skills in "Windows 97". The job was as a computer consultant or similar (I can't remember exactly)

I saw one for "Data Enyrty Clerks" recently

CH

I was recently asked if 'Windows TM' was a new version.

2 months after the launch of "Dreamweaver", I saw *two* agencies advertising for users with 2-3 years experience in it...

Today I was a Stupid User .
Two hours on the phone to our software supporters. Eventually we agreed I'd monitor the situation for the next week and record all error reports in detail. Unfortunately the error message that did come up, while on the phone, was so distorted by whatever's wrong that it was unreadable.

test

This must have been a very naughty thread.

Bloody hell. That's impressive.

Liam.

All 353 posts awaiting moderation? Is that supposed to mean that they were recently yikesed? Or is this just the wrong text?

Perhaps someone yikes'd the subject line...?

Hey! I've seen something like this somewhere before...
*points at name*

Hmmm... will I get told off if I yikes all the valid posts here? Or will someone beet me to it?

Liam.