h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

in theory yes..... but what about in the real world?
E.G if you found £5000 in the street would you risk handing it in??
any views????

ZP

Here in Denmark there was a robber who got away with 42 million kroner. So far they have only found the 3 of them, and he is now in jail. So somewhere over the rainbow is lying 39 millions. Would you hand the in if you found them?

Anyway, honesty isn´t always the best policy. As some philosopher said, what would you do if a madman came over to you with a rifle and asked if you had seen his mother because he wanetd to shoot her. Honesty wouldn´t be a good thing in that situation. Unless you hadn´t seen her of course.

T'was Kant and the point he was making was that you shouldn't use people as means and actually recommended you be honest to the Murder because (to severely paraphrase a lot of complicated stuff) who are we to judge what the outcome will be (Vs Consequentialist accounts of similar matters) and doing so would violate the catagorical imperative. (i.e it's never right to lie, even now.)

Clive

Which only goes to show what complete b****x philosophers write, and explain why so many of them had disfunctional personal lives.

agcB

Oh come on, without Philosophy we wouldn't have... philosophy.

Seriously, I think being honest is generally a very good thing to do, not just because it's better morally, but because it's easier. Having to hold multiple versions of the truth in your mind is complicated. Babies only gain the capacity to lie after a certain age. If you ask a young baby to say 'my name is Joe' they won't be able to (unless they are called Joe of course).

Well, it might be that the whole lieing and decieving thing is what awareness is all about. Which make it kind of sad, the only thing seperating us from the animals is that we lie more.

But being completely honest in a relationship would never work.

Well I tried it and it didn't work out, but that my not be because of a connection between the two.

I just find it easier to try and tell the truth. Otherwise you end up living a whole bunch of seperate lives with isolated threads.

Q: How many pathological liers does it take to screw in a light bulb.

A: You'll never know.

I hate liers.

djs

As I see it, the "honesty" question hinges on trust and self-worth.

For trust to form, honesty is required. Presumably, you want people to believe you when you say something; to gain that, you have to prove--by not lying--that what you say *is* true.

Self-worth: I regard myself as a better person *because* I don't lie. It helps me feel good about myself.

And, of course, there's the quote from "Hook" (said by Hook himself): "Me? Lie? Never! The truth is far too much fun!"

Well, Xanatic, and everyone else for that matter...

It was my witholding the truth that screwed my marriage.

agcB

If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
however...
people occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as it nothing had happened
from this it is possible to assume the "How, Why, Where" statements of civilization.
First, How truth is ridiculed. Then, Why it is violently opposed. Finally, When it is accepted as self-evident.
so when all else fails...Veritas vos liberabit. (the truth will set you free)

Z Phantom

the first thing that comes to my mind reading the title of this thread: I know so many people (mostly men?) who are not honest because they are afraid to hurt somebody (and bear the consequences). And they ALWAYS hurt the other person a LOT more this way - because the truth will come out anyway and besides having done what they did (well, guess..) they REALLY betrayed the other by living on as if nothing had happened - like this destroying every good thing that took place, too - because how can you value what's good if the floor you thought you were standing on suddenly turns out to have been a lie for a much too long time already.

honesty may not always be the best policy (and certainly far from the easiest) - but on the personal level being dishonest about something crucial will always (I think) turn out to be the bigger mistake.

I may be wrong though.

Well so many people think that they can have their cake and eat it.

However it is sometimes possible to play away games and not get caught, so I can understand how tempting it is.

agcB

and maybe then it IS better not to have said anything because it actually may have prevented some unnecessary hurts?

hm.

Well, I think so.

I have a couple who are friends of mine. I will call them Bill and Sue. Bill told me some time ago that he was in the middle of an an affair. So far as I am aware, Sue did not know this, but I cannot be sure. I could see that their marriage was rocky, and I did't want to do anything to de-stablilise it further.

Did I tell Sue?

Answer - No.

They have since resolved their differences. I think Sue probably knows about Bill's affairs. I do not think he his still having affairs, but I am not sure, and it is none of my business anyway.

They are much happier than they were, and I have not betrayed Bill's confidence and lost his friendship, or disillusioned Sue and lost her friendship.

If I had betrayed Bill's confidence and intruded into the way that Sue was dealing with the situation I could have destroyed their marriage and my friendship with each of them.

I was absolutely not prepared to take those risks.

a discreet person called Ben

so - the answer to zphantom's question is: no

(which leaves us free to keep all the cash we happen to find - all the better for us, too! )

I don't blame you I would probably do the same.
after all
A comfortable falsehood will always win out over an uncomfortable truth.

Z P (out looking for money)

I would hand in cash I found in the street.
But trusted with confidences...
agcB, you did the right thing.
People usually shoot the messenger, I've found.
There is a difference between being honest, and keeping confidences.
If your friend had asked you "Do you think my husband is having an affair" then you would have had to tell her the truth.
The fact that you didn't tell her shows respect for her feelings, and I you for that.
I think it's prize b*****s and b******s who go round blabbing about affairs, just to hurt the innocent party.
My ex- would've taken a great deal of pleasure in informing your friend that her hubby was playing away from home.

I cannot see why you need to lie, ever. In Ben's case, witholding the truth is not lying. In answer to the direct question "Is my spouse having an affair?", the best answer would be "If I knew I wouldn't tell you", or some other deflection. Its only when asked a totally straight question that you are in trouble. "Do you have any knowledge of my spouse having an affair?" that you might be stumped, and have to either be honest or lie. Even then, you can take an aggressive line "What kind of question is that?" etc. etc.

In the first example of the murderer (a 'nice' quandary) you can only counter the question with another "Do you seriously expect me to tell you?" etc. etc.

Deflection is not lying, though, should you be a politician, you may not like the reputation it gives you if you always do it.

The issue of confidence is an interesting one. The confessional, medical and legal confidences, and so on.

Yes, there is a difference between suppressio veri and suggestio falsi.

I had another situation where a friend bound me to secrecy, and there was potential for a second person to ask a direct question about the issue. This one gives me a real difficulty.

Luckily the second person has not asked me the question, yet...

a*cB