h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

At the risk of hi-jacking Ben's thread...

And is honesty involved? Or is it just that what he/she doesn't know can't hurt them. I know I would feel dreadfully hurt, (If the cuckold) to the point of exploding, but I can't think why. As you say, everyone has needs of one sort or another, unfulfilled by their partner, and 'touching' another is hardly the end of the world. Its irrational (monogamy, that is), but somehow very necessary to my particular relationship.

Well I was monogomous for all the years of my marriage. I found the thought of sleeping with someone else too much of an act of betrayal, but that was my call.

However, I have since have a relationship with someone who is married. But it was just friendship and sex, it had a built in end-date, it was structured so that his wife would not be find out, and I was not his first excursion into infidelity. (We were both on assignment away from home during the week days; at the start we agreed that the relationship would end when the assignment/s ended).

I know that she would feel immensly distressed and I assume that she would feel immensly betrayed if she found out. But I also know that he is committed to his marriage, and I am just the proverbial bit on the side.

And to be honest? He is a nice guy - but she is welcome to him. There is no way I want more than the occasional meal (we go dutch, btw) and - er - so on.

a*cB

- And is honesty involved?
being honest about it (for me) is the only possible way it can work at all.
not from day one. but after a certain time, telling your mate (and that's _not_ easy and that's probably why so many try not to do it) 'there is someone I'm seing quite often at the moment'. Spare him/her the details if not asked for any. But don't let him/her live in illusions - it will hurt too much if he/she finds out by accident.

An affair (as far as I know) usually has some sort of built in end-date - it gradually gets less interesting (unless of course it stays forbidden - _there's_ the way to keep the attraction burning!)

- Or is it just that what he/she doesn't know can't hurt them.
on the very contrary! the worst hurts came from situations where only _afterwards_ I was told a certain situation had to do with 'the other'. _this_ is what I consider being betraying.

Although I must admit: knowing there is an 'other' can creep into your thoughts more than it deserves.

- I know I would feel dreadfully hurt, (If the cuckold) to the point of exploding, but I can't think why.
it questions your identity as a man / woman. what does the other have that I lack? mostly it's only 'being new and unknown'.

- but somehow very necessary to my particular relationship.
opening up only can work if both sides agree (as can monogamy, for that matter)

what bothers me about it: so many people seem only to have the choice between cheating on someone they love / at least like well enough to stay in a relationship with or keeping their hands off any other person they may meet + find - in whatever way - attractive.

I think there is so much potential of spending some good time wasted.

but maybe the complications aren't worth it.

Well, what he tells her is not my business. I dont feel very good about this it must be said.

I am going to post more tomorrow, having been the 'betrayed' one too, in my time.

a*cB

You went dutch? Was that with the dinner or the sex?

I wouldn´t say monogamy is irrational. But saying our society is monogamous would be very wrong. Where do you find a perosn who has only had one partner? Serial monogamy seems more like it. But I think the main problem with cheating is that you break your word. Which I think is very important. Which is also why you shouldn´t cheat on somebody, even if you knew they wouldn´t find out. There are of course some marriages that are very open, but it seems in many cases in the end there´s just too much jealousy.

Dutch on the food. Call me independent or stroppy - but I have a horror of free-loading.

Ok.

Pheroneous asked 'And is honesty involved? Or is it just that what he/she doesn't know can't hurt them. '

Well, in my case, I am quite honest that all I wanted was a no-strings no-harm fling, and that I wanted it to end when the assignment ended. I know that he has not told his wife, but I regard that as his business, in the same way I regarded the situation between Bill and Sue as their business.

Before I started this particular fling, I discovered that not only was the former Mr Ben in a relationship, but that relationship had begun late in 99, and someone I regarded as a friend knew about it. (Just call me Sue, in this case, I guess!)

Now in fairness to the former Mr Ben (tfMB), we had agreed that we were going to part in 99, and only after that did he have his affair. It was over by late 99 when he asked me to get back together. I said, yes, but only if we talk. But of course we didn't.

Late in 2000 we agreed again to part, and either late in 2000 or early in 2001 he got back together with his co-respondent.

What skunnered me when I found out was (1) that the-person-who-knew had not told me and (2) I no longer knew how to interpret what was going on early in 2000 when we were supposedly getting back together again.

But... when I had thought it through I realised that if I had been tfMB I would have done the same as he did, and if I had been the-person-who-knew-but-did-not-tell, I would have done the same, as I did in the Bill/Sue situation.

So I cannot blame anyone in that.

The worst thing was the confusion - I simply did not know what to make of Nov 1999 thru Sept 2000, because although he was not involved with anyone else at the time, I did not understand his motives for getting back together.

And now?

Water... Bridges... and I have a date with tfMB on Friday night.

Honesty the best policy? No not really.
Integrity the only way to live? Absolutely

a*cB

Just a couple of other thoughts.

I told a couple of my male colleagues that tfMB was having an affair, and their reaction was 'what a jerk for telling you'. (The timing was appalling - my mother had just died when I found out).

When I told women, their reaction was 'what a b*****d for doing it'.

Actually I just thought he was a poor dumb-ass bloke, but there you go.

a*cB

acB

Well, this was zphantom's thread...
Anyone else got any views on honesty, integrity and policy?

a*cB

integrity as a very important feature. might also help handle the question of honesty: honesty not as the absolute way to follow no matter the costs; keeping one's own and if possible the other's integrity intact as a major point of orientation.

It is a subtle difference, isn't it?

a*cB

I suppose it depends on your point of view - to myself honesty always (i.e. when i can be bothered) prevails.

ZP

That men and women reaction was interesting. But it could perhaps be caused by something else. That the guys thought that having an affair was a bad thing, but everyone is entitled to make a mistake. And that it would have been better not to tell you, than to hurt you by telling.

But about integrity, what do you mean when you say that?

I like that honesty/integrity division. Integrity is rigid adherence to a code of behavior. Honesty can mean the same thing, but it can also mean truthfulness or sincerity. A person could justify lying if his or her ethics ranked something like not causing unnecessary pain to others over strict adherence to the absolute truth at all times. I guess someone could also have an "evil" integrity that values causing as much trouble as possible for others if it gets him ahead. And he could have a moment of honesty and fess up to his misdeeds, take the consequences, and that would show a lack of integrity on his part.

Interesting, MoG.

To me integrity is acting by my highest values - not damaging other people, being true to myself, treating others fairly, not playing the game to different rules.

By this test, yes, you could have someone with an evil integrity.

Honesty, I regard as telling the truth, whether to myself or to others.

I am very aware of the difference between telling lies, and not saying anything at all; (suggestio falsi, and supressio veri). I regard supressing the truth as acceptable and telling lies as unacceptable, though I have done both in my time.

As I have indicated further up the thread, I have not always lived by my highest ideals, but I am fairly satisfied that I have caused no harm.

a hairsplitter called Ben

Hi Ben
Integrity by my standards is about the same as yours. But Xanatic's question made me drag out my beloved dictionary and look up the difference in the 2 words. And *creeeeeeeeaaaaaaak* my mental gears started grinding. (love it when that happens!) I've always said I value people of integrity. Guess I'll have to qualify that with particular values, now.

"A comfortable falsehood will always win out over an uncomfortable truth." said some postings ago.

Does anyone feel that such a premise only maintains the discomfort of that truth and the comfort of that falsehood? By doing so doesn't that restrict us from having the will or opportunity to change that? Will that prevent us as a species from ever allowing honesty to become the norm? Is this healthy?


Not really a kid, or for that matter particularly kitsch...
(despite continued ownership of the snooker table message board I got from my cousin last christmas. Oohh! )

One thing that is interesting is that I will try to spare other people pain - eg the pain of knowing a truth they don't 'need' to know; but that when my ex and I were parting my watch-word was 'I can take any amount of truth, it is the silence I can't handle'.

That said, I don't feel the such a strong need to know everything about him that I used to feel.

Still thinking about this one.

a*cB

There you go. Telling people what they don't need to know and getting the cold shoulder for your efforts can be as painful as keeping it in and letting it fester.
But does that mean you should only take interest in what you need to know? I don't need to know that the guy on the other side of the street is having a nosebleed, but if he chooses to tell me I won't resent him for it. I'll find him a tissue.

I was still obsessing about relationships when I posted that comment.

I didn't 'need' to know about tfMB's fling. He did not tell me for all sorts of reasons, one of which was probably to spare me pain, but I was very hurt by the silence I sensed.

I don't know how I would have reacted to the knowledge, if he had told me at the time or shortly afterwards. So I now respect his decision not to tell me.

Tissue anyone?

a*cB