h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You must have /read/ them, surely!

[Somewhat in shock...]

- Jordan

I've heard the radio serialisations several times, Jordan. Oh yep, I borrowed one of the books from the library years ago. I just don't take that stuff terribly seriously. I prefer to read actual rather than spoof philosophy. My sense of humour is sometimes more activated by books that are supposed to be serious!

I /love/ spoof! Spoof is why the world goes round, because if it weren't for spoofons (the fundamental particle of rotation, invisible to all but me) we couldn't!

How could you? My faith in you is in tatters! See, watch this glimmer of hope rip right off... There it goes, and that was the last one!

Surely you could remember the bit about the babelfish from the radio versions?

[Signing out]

- Jordan

And no one takes it /seriously/.

...



I hope...

- Jordan, who is REALLY going to LOG OFF NOW.

I recalled the Babelfish itself but not the precise details of the way it was introduced.

Jordan

Adib has told us that he is our resident Muslim.
It would help us to obtain a clearer picture of his faith if his facts about his own religion were a little less contradictory to other things we read and I don't mean just the media impression, but web sites written by Muslims.

If for instance you were to suggest something about your own religion, that conflicts with other members of that religion, I'm certain it would be questioned and I'd hope you wouldn't see this as an attack.

I'm not a great reader of the Koran, but I don't believe there is anything there to suggest execution (particularly by stoning) for adultary....if however I have missed that reference I wouldn't take it as an attack if someone where to point it out to me. I'd add it to the rest of the precious knowledge and information that I have collected from talking to the different people who write here, with gratitude.
Yes Adultary can cause horrendous hardship and I'd suggest that those who choose that way, endure their own punishments (perhaps god given ?) The punishment metered out in some countries is extreme however in my mind , and also does not seem to stop the so called transgression.
since there is no direct ruling for stoning in the koran, I have to assume that somebody has extrapolated from the original and made this up.
To lash someone for love and then execute them is about human cruelty and I do not consider cruelty to be part of God's work.
Call me naive, call me sentimental......

As I understand it Islam is a religion based on justice and understanding, and yet many of it's followers seem to choose to change that into something fundamental and violent with cruelties.

I'm not blaming Mohammend, I'm blaming Man.

From the Koran, chapter 24:2 to 4; The Light - ' (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement. The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors, except those who repent after this and act aright, for surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.'

For a quick overview, see:-

http://www.suntimes.co.za/2002/09/01/letters/letters06.asp

Also, see:-

http://allafrica.com/stories/200203250395.html

And, finally, a contrasting opinion is cited here:-

http://answering-islam.org/Index/A/adultery.html

So, is Adib right or wrong? I don't know. I don't know if any of us are qualified to say, but it's possible. Though in the end, it's up to Adib what he wants to stick with.

- Jordan

If only people would stick with things, Jordan. Trouble is that, all too often, there's one interpretation for public consumption and another for the faithful. Bible and Koran both allow for this kind of duplicitousness.

My personal thinking on holy texts is that the only true interpretations could be made from the origianals like way back when they were being copied onto stone slabs because people can make printing errors or reinterpret to go with political climate or whatever. Occasionally they can just be plain wrong, although that doesn't happen a lot.

Dragonlover

What precisely do you mean here, Tox? Duplicity is something that the Bible frowns upon. Or is that just the public face?

I agree with Dragonlover, the meanings are often obscured badly by translation, poor copying, loss of material and plain social reader's bias.

- Jordan

Hey Jordan, they've put the good Roses back in!

and hurrah.

<!?90"$&*£'fgj?



Join me in a victory dance!



Oh yay, we win, oh yay, they pay! Oh yay...

- Jordan

Huh? Good roses? Please explain. Anyway, another problem with organised religion is that people fall into the trap of "Oh, its Sunday therefore we're Christian so lets be nice" but on other days they're absolute buzzards. Also they stop worshipping the God and start just going through the motions.

Dragonlover

thanks for that clarification Jordan, still see no sign of execution for sexual 'transgressions' there.

Does that mean that people are being put to death from bad translation, poor copying, loss of material and plain social reader's bias.
Or the will of the 'ruling' few to control the rest of the population ?

'thanks for that clarification Jordan, still see no sign of execution for sexual 'transgressions' there.' The 'signs' were in the third article. 'Does that mean that people are being put to death from bad translation, poor copying, loss of material and plain social reader's bias.' That's the reasoning behind the first article. Or the will of the 'ruling' few to control the rest of the population? The second article. And the 'Roses' thing - sorry, see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/F19585?thread=158157 I referred to it earlier in the thread, which is why Mandragora was putting me right. I haven't actually had any since the travesty occurred. - Jordan

Thankyou for that, the brain was really confused. And yes people will be stoned to death cos of bad editing departments and the king not liking the fact the bible sys he can't do stuff. Ho hum.

Dragonlover

We're also discussing the Koran, and that seems to be almost exactly what some people think the situation is - getting the mosaic law mixed up, and a caliph making his own interpretations of things...

Our resident experts will, perhaps, be able to provide more details on the legitimacy of these propositions?

- Jordan

Toxxin - not a problem...

Jordan - yes, but Toxxin asked me what the Babel fish had to do with the non-existence of god....I thought it would be best if DNA explained...

Ok where to start. Firstly are you aware there are several branchs to Islam. Sunni, shi'atsu etc. You are asking me about Islam and I am answering on the best of my knowledge including all sides of Islam. When you go on a website the person who wrote it they may be sunni or not but most of the time they are only talking about there branch of Islam. So of course you will find some things I say are different from some web sites. When was the last time you checked the web site to see what sect it was.
Secondly. Stoning is only done in some branchs of Islam not all of them. There are hadith that mention examples of people coming to get stoned because they sinned from there own free will.

thirdly If you don't want to believe what I say don't as I don't care. I have three or four other places where I have to answer questions and all I can do is answer to the best of my knowledge. Why do you expect I know all the answers. I don't want to be shouldered with all the questions about Islam you copied of some cristian sites to discredit Islam.

Adib

I am in no way out to discredit Islam. It's not my place to do so. Something I would like is that Egyptian cleric whose name escapes me the hell outta the country, because he keeps hiding behind his religion and also playing the racism card.

Dragonlover