h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Frogbit...I did not think you so dense.

The US gave rather large loans to the European countries following WWII(Marshall Plan). Those loans(never repaid, incedentally) insured that their infrastructures, societies and economies could recover following the war."

Ah - all is now clear. Thnakyou for your conciseness, Fairly Strange, not to mention your politeness. I think I prefer that Saracasim bloke you were talking about...

Oh and Apparition...it's not about oil...

Hey FS - can you supply me with some (non-raving madman) links about how the Marshall Plan has never been repaid?

Well...the last time I checked I wasn't a "raving madman". Just a Southern US Redneck. 'Course, where you're from(no, I have no idea and I don't really care) that may mean the same thing.

As far as documentation, I have none....and I'm not quite the "research hound" it seems most on this thread are. The question is, do you have documentation that it was paid?

Something tells me you won't find it. But then, who am I to say? I'm just one of those US "zombies" who accepts, as truth, everything my government tells me.(watch out, that oddly named "terrorist" is about!)

NM

" The question is, do you have documentation that it was paid?"

doesn't work that way. burden is always on the accuser and, fs, you made the accusation. Well in the civilised world anyway. America seems to have it's share of "detainees" at the moment.

Whether or not it was paid back, I think the point should be made that the real purpose of the Marshall Plan was to try to stop the spread of communism. The only way one could convince the US government to spend that much on other countries, right after an expensive war, was if they thought it was to their advantage.

>> ..here in NZ for *weeks*! (Half our news media are American owned, BTW) <<


And some are Canadian owned by CanWest/Global, so I know exactly how little you'll be seeing there of what the facist Isreali army is doing to the Palestinian people in the Ghettoes of Gaza.


~jwf~

you're right. It was to stop communism. Germany had it's debts paid for 1960

http://jdc-web.org.uk/london_50th.htm

Mentions repayments

http://www.historyuniverse.com/bookstore1/0395516064AMUS130602.shtml

Best link I found

http://www.newint.org/issue312/history.htm

It would seem that FS's statement was issued by the 'never never land' press

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1947marshallplan1.html

Note the date of the speech was 1947, not 1953.

NM

That is not the worry the scarry thing is that a few miles off the korean coast the are at least 3 trident submerines each carrying 24 SLBM's - submarine lauched balistic missiles. Each missile carrys 12 multable targeting nuclear war heads. The trident 2 can reach a speed of over 1 mile a second 2 minutes after launch. That means a wave of 36 independently targeted {each over 100 times the power of the first atom bomb} missiles will hit North Korean targets less then 5 minutes after launch.(1/2 hour later hawaii and californa will take multable hits.} With aditional waves of 36 every minutes hitting NK for a total of 774 strikes.the british have same weapons.
All this scenero takes is one wrong move, one mistake and millions die in less then 6 minutes.
If china joins in 'ball game over'. North korea has stared several times that a strike on thier reacter or more frightening a imposing of sanctions on them would be cosidered an act of war illiciting a nuclear response on the US. Kinda makes iraq look like a regional fight. I can not understand why people are not screaming about this

>> The last time I checked, the US did not install puppet governments in this case. <<

It was in the warming glow of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that America finally figured it all out. You leave a US General in charge of everything and make sure the spoils of war are nicely divvied up while the world watches war crimes executions and feels 'saved'.

And then you revise history, eliminate most of the culture by making most family names illegal, create dummy corporations with Swiss Bank owners, and then re-educate the people to accept Democracy.

Much the same happened in Europe under the Marshall Plan and the Nurenburg trials. You really think Patton was killed in a car 'accident'?

Anyway, trust me, the real truth is that after WW2 the concept of 'nations' was like totally passee. He who has the biggest military wins. The USSR and the US won. And the World Bank and International Monetary Fund were set up along with the United Nations as part of the 'war settlements'. Pretty soon all 'nations' owed money to Uncle Sam who insanely kept building a bigger and bigger military and based the economy on military production.

Today all the money in the world, everything that flows thru the world economy, all of it comes from, or is owed to, the World Bank. They are the ones who destroy national infrasctructures and disaasemble regional economies so the multi-nationals can move in. They blackmail governments with huge debt and cause nations to write their own death warrants by allowing 'free trade zone' labour camps. Or allowing US military operations access to the country. Ask Jamaica, Taiwan, Turkey, the Phillipines, the Saudis, Panama, etc etc..

Did you know that most Americans don't put vinegar on their fries?


~jwf~

Just a thought from out here in left field:

It really seems at this point inevitable that British and American forces will move on Iraq within a day or two. I think an important question now for people on this thread who live outside of those two countries (and perhaps outside Spain) is: What are we going to say to our governments if those countries flout the will of the Security Council? Should resolutions be brought forward condemning the action (although they would, of course, be vetoed)? Should countries consider unilateral or multilateral economic sanctions? I'll admit that many of our American friends would laugh at the latter suggestion, but it seems to me that they might be surprised by the impact of such action, particularly if it were multilateral. Frozen assets, strict customs controls and inspections, restricted exit from and supply to military bases on foriegn soil. Sure it would hurt other countries, but if we believe in the UN, if we believe in multilateralism, if we believe in the international rule of law, and most specifically, if we believe that Saddam is contained and Inspections had a chance of working, then we'd better start yelling at our governments to act, no matter what the hurt.

I've been going after my Prime Minister. What about the rest of you foreign peace-niks?

sorry, jwf, we simulposted. They don't put vinegar on their fries?!

Your right about the whole world bank, IMF thing. Why don't we just skip our payments and set up a new world bank and a new IMF that serves the world's interests?

post 5769, read the link

another tidbit - America didn't pay for gulf war one. Japan kuwait and another that I can't remember footed most of the bill.

I guess I always have to be different. I love vinegar with my fries while investing my IMF kickbacks into overseas real estate. It makes me feel so cosmopolitan.

How did that old 'tears for fears' song go?

>> ..many of our American friends ... might be surprised by the impact of such action, particularly if it were multilateral. Frozen assets, strict customs controls and inspections, restricted exit from and supply to military bases on foriegn soil. <<

Yes, it seems to me that the disruptions created by Ossam ben Laden have left enough stress cracks in the modern world that it all may yet come a-tumbling down. Just like him and Allah probably had planned all along.

Y'see, as it says in the Bible, David sleweth the giant with a stone, a bit of ingenuity, a good aim and the foreknowledge to know exactly where a mortal blow might be struck. And all the King's horses couldna do diddly.


~jwf~

"Y'see, as it says in the Bible, David sleweth the giant with a stone, a bit of ingenuity, a good aim and the foreknowledge to know exactly where a mortal blow might be struck. And all the King's horses couldna do diddly."

I know the Bible pretty well, but I don't remember David slaying Humpty Dumpty. In Scotland.

Starbirth:

Are you meaning "shout"?