h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Shrub may call for a Palestinian state (which is his only redeeming idea, I think), but he's too weak-willed. All his advisors have to do is tell him that they can't do that, that that's not a good idea, and he rolls over. Unfortunately.

A lot of people who oppose him because it's fashionable (I do know people like that) will hear him calling for a sovereign Palestinian state, and they will oppose that, because Bush is condoning it. In reality, they really don't oppose Bush, and they don't really care about Palestine, but they decide that they have to oppose all of Bush's policies because they're Bush's, because it's fashionable. Trust me, people like this exist - my best friend is one. It makes me sick.

And there you go - Kissenger shows something that's not absolute devotion to Israel, and suddenly he's a Nazi. Typical.

Quite right. The Israelis would just ignore any attempt to get Israel to unexist, and then they'd cry antisemitism. They'd cry Nazism. They'd cry new holocaust. Then the world's rather strange and insane collective guilt would kick in, and no matter how huch people still wanted to act, no one would have the courage.

Isn't that the problem, though? That our collective guilt makes us susceptible to all sorts of political blackmail? In the states, the whole reparations for slavery issue...man. If this was 1900, and former slaves were asking, I'd be all for it, but more than 100 years after the fact is a bit late, I think.

At what point do we stop managing our countries based on the atrocities our ancestors committed? I have a friend who happens to be German, and she and another friend, who happens to be Jewish, have these moments of sheer weirdness (sorry, that's the only way I can put it) where one or the other will do or say something completely innocent, and the next thing you know, one or the other is having issues because of their heritage.

the israelis learned a lot from national socialism...and have implemented it rather forcefully

Hi monty http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/F19585?thread=401889 one reason for continued interest in the whole slavery issue maybe the fact that black people still have lower life expectancy, receive less in pay and are less likely to get promoted when they can get jobs. This coupled with the ongoing racism that exists in part bcause of the ideas that were promoted by slave traders. one love

shouldn't native ameriericans be given back ck the land they had for starters then

But then where would they build their casinos? (please, please, please read the sarcasm dripping off that one!)

blicky, love, sorry, but there's too much American bashing going on over there for me to get involved. The lawyers are suing a English corporation for English actions, and again it's devolved into, yet again, how America is a crappy, horrible, terrible, no good country.

No thanks. I get tired of defending my very existence.

That said, I think at some point we (and I mean collectively as a planetful of people) we need to stop thinking that everyone who isn't just like us is somehow our enemy. The Jews, Muslims and Christians of all stripes, various nationalities should stop worrying about HOW to force their brand of religion/politics/economics/whathaveyou onto others...more flies with honey than with vinegar, remember?

But to get us back on subject, do you think the mutilation of the 4 Americans in Fallouja is going to change the tide of public opinion in any meaningful way?

too little too late

what's too little too late?

That certainly seems to be the case, crazyhorse...

Hi Monty,

I dont think Im particuarly US bashing, yeah this issue involves mainly US and the UK and to a slightly lesser extent other western countries like spain who were also involved in the triangle trade.

I guess its unfortunate for you that a lot of the worst companies base themselves in the US and your country has a lot of scary politicians. The borough I live in has 3 BNP councillors. However I dont associate you or any other "americans" directly with the homocidal whins of Bush than I do myself with the racist remarks of Prince Phillip simply because we are both "British".

I thought you would have noticed this but I can see why with all the anti-americans flak you could forget who the idiots are and who are nuetral.

one love

No, blicky, it isn't you. Honest! Please don't think that's what *I* think!

Just clarifying

Yeah, my best friend is German, and he's always on about people he admires, or thinks are notable. After describing them, he'll say, "but he was an antisemite", as if that means that whatever they achieved was moot, as if that means they should be expunged from history.

But he's the starngest person to be feeling the collective guilt. He's a 17 year old boy who's lived in New Zealand for most of his life. It must be the influence of his parents, who are in their middle fifties.

Sometimes it's really infuriating, though. I bet if he knew of my antizionism, he'd probably explode with cognitive dissonance. His collective guilt would tell him to disagree, but his general sense would tell him to agree. But, I think, his general conservatism would win out.

The reason why it's so silly to be suing the British company is because Britain outlawed slavery in 1820. Almost 200 years ago.

I think that most of the people who ran the company back then are dead, and those that are still alive will be retired, sitting on the deck of some cottage somewhere collecting their pensions.

Should we hold people responsible for the actions of peolpe who lived centuries before they were born? I certainly think not.