h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm reminded of a scene from the film 'A Man For All Seasons' where Thomas More's son in law is telling everyone how he would cut down all the laws in the land to get at the Devil. Thomas turns this back on him and points out that after he had done so, and the Devil turned around and came for *him*, who and what would protect him? I wish I could recall the exact quote, it's so much more powerful than my description of it.

The heart of the matter is that if our leaders go after Saddam, or anyone else, in our name without first going through the due process, what's to stop anyone else coming after us, and being perfectly justified (in their own minds) in doing so?

It would have been a humane and compassionate thing to go after Hitler as soon as the world got the merest hint of what was happening to the Jews, but most world leaders understand that you can't just march into another country - that's recognised as an act of war. President Bush doesn't seem to be one of them.

And that's where almost everyone seems to be missing the point. I doubt that anyone involved in the anti-war protests yesterday, anyone involved in these conversations and others just like them all over the net, approves of what Saddam is doing to his own people and what plans he may or may not have for those outside his borders. I have no doubt that we'd all like to see him removed from power so that he can no longer hurt anyone.

I believe that we're all against the impending war not because we are concerned for the Iraqi people, but also that we're thoroughly p****d off with the arrogant posturing and war-mongering of President George W. Bush and all those around him.

The sooner that other world leaders get up off their diplomatic arses and say so, the better. I heard it said yesterday - it might have been in another thread here, it might have been on the radio or tv - that Bush is in danger of frittering away all of the sympathy that the world felt for America after the attacks on New York and Washington. It's him we should be protesting against - that 'semi-elected' President who to all intents and purposes got the Presidency by foul means with the help of his brother, the Governor of Florida. Remember all those joke emails that were going around after the election - the ones likening Bush's victory to that of a third world dictator? Remember Steve Bell's (I think it was Steve Bell) cartoon - 'Electile Disfunction'?

Bush needs to be gotten rid of every bit as much as Saddam does. Bush is going to ruin America with his policies - the surplus has already been whittled away to a massive deficit and he's about to give the richest in the land a massive tax break whilst letting the needy wait for the 'trickle down'. He may well plunge the world into war too if we don't do something about him.

Dagnammit

"...impending war not *only* because we are concerned for the Iraqi people, but also..."

"It would have been a humane and compassionate thing to go after Hitler as soon as the world got the merest hint of what was happening to the Jews, but most world leaders understand that you can't just march into another country - that's recognised as an act of war. President Bush doesn't seem to be one of them."

I don't think Bush is pretending that what he intends to do in the Gulf constitues anything other than war.

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Yay!!! song...
I didn't feel any sympathy for *America*; but plenty for the people involved.
Far more worrying, to me, are the comments I keep hearing, like "I may not agree with him but he's the leader of my country so I'll support him," and, even worse, "I do not agree with the president but I would fight for this country anyday. If you don't want to, there are other countries you can go to."
"I don't have to agree authority but I will still obey their instructions."

wrongwrongwrong... is this not deeply disturbing?

yes, mister millgram, I'll turn it all the way up to ten.
I was only following orders.

IMHO the song sounds better to the tune of "If you're happy and you know it".

Sorry. Bit off topic. Sorry.

Brave person to put "pre-emptive non-agression" in a song.

Yes - "My country right or wrong" That one's had plenty of debate here at hootoo. For a country which prides itself on the cult of individualism, it's quite perplexing to see so many Americans lining up and chanting the same mantra

I may have been a bit previous, or at least, somewhat wide of the mark in my first post. Mrs Gosho was at the protest in Austin on Saturday, and she assures me that plenty of people were against Bush and what he wants to do, as much those who were simply against a war. Judging from the pictures of banners I've seen from other protests around the world, many others were too. So why is that aspect of the crisis receiving so little media coverage? Why are other world leaders either sucking up to Bush, or disagreeing with him in a very diplomatic manner?

The man is a childish bully who doesn't seem to understand many of the basics of being a head of state. From my three and a half years of living in Texas, I can see where his reasoning comes from - Texas justice is all about revenge. And if you can't get the person who did it, get their brother!

There was piece on American public radio a few weeks ago about the way that Southern politics have permeated the White House and Capitol Hill, but I missed most of it as I was getting ready for work, and I haven't been able to locate it in the NPR archive

IMO, Bush needs to go every bit as much as Saddam. He 'won' and election wwhich has since been shown to be an utter sham and a disgrace to any democratic society, for many reasons, not the least of which was the involvement of his brother Jeb. He didn't have the good grace and the integrity to step down and order another election. Whatever it would have cost in pure money terms, it would have been much less than the difference between the surplus then, and the deficit now.

here's another one:
"The government is us, we're them."

NO. Your government, even if you *did* vote for them, is not you! You are an individual and not responsible for their actions especially if you disagree. And if you did not vote for them, even more so. The government is not even your country.
Trouble is, when folk say this sort of thing they are speaking for plenty of people who'd rather they didn't. If they're on about the UK government they are speaking for me; I hate being misrepresented.
Scary, no?

Apparently, all of Bush's faults don't matter if he's 'doing the right thing'.

gosh, this happened so many times whilst i was at skool:

This guy is the school bully right, he's been making everyones life miserable for some time.

Finally, some of the Prefects decide that it is time to teach the bully a lesson he won't forget and take him down a peg.

Just as his fate looks sealed and your faith in justice is about to be renewed, the substitute fr*nch teacher shows up and stops the fight.

Your champions, the prefects, get caned.

The school bully walks off scott free, smirking.

He returns the next day and continues bullying with even more impunity.

...a parable for our time.

alec.

Yeah

And all it would have taken was for the people who were being bullied to tell the bully to go and p**s up a stick. Either one at a time or en masse. No need for the prefects to get involved. It works every time... unless the bully is The Mafia

What's obscene about the French?

>>Texas justice is all about revenge. And if you can't get the person who did it, get their brother!

Get Jeb!!

...because, if you can censor the French (presumably due to your opinion of the actions/attitudes of their government) surely it is fair for those who feel inclined to start calling it 'Amerika' to make what they believe is a similar political point?
I imagine French Researchers would rather be described neutrally (especially as they are not necessarily spoken for by their leaders, as stated above) since judging from the reactions of certain people to 'Amerika' it is not the polite thing to do.

wasn't there some short-lived teledrama thingy called 'Amerika'

with Kris Kristofferson in it?

alec.

Mandragora... thats a very good idea for a thread :

"Whats WRONG with the Fr*nch"

soon to be appearing on 'Ask H2G2'

alec.

well, seriously... what is wrong with them?

This could be a very long list, so i will definitely start that thread

1. They EAT horses.

alec.

So, we eat chickens, cows and pigs, and I once had a rather tasty roast kangaroo.