h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yeah, sucks to live there. I recommend you do what I'm doing; save up and move the hell out of Dodge.

"...mostly a self confidence thing..." Yeah it seems to be. Absolutely everybody has issues. Anyone who says they don't is in denial. The only thing which varies is people's ability to cope.
Personally I blame the media for the self-image related stuff. We're about to get a program showing over here called 'the Swan'; I don't know if you've heard of it but basically 'contestants' get plastic surgery of their choice, and then compete in a beauty pageant. These poor women have nothing wrong with them to start with, and then suddenly people are telling them they need to change this or adjust that, or they'll never be beautiful. And that if they're not beautiful enough they won't win the pageant, and nobody will love them or something. I mean FCK! What kind of @$$hole TV producer would do that to someone? This is why I don't have a TV. I want to swear some more about it, but I'll restrain myself. Pardon my (anti-)passion on the subject - it's become kind of a personal nuisance over the last couple of days.

Anyway... Mansonites are people who basically do what Marilyn Manson does; dress up as scary as possible, and perform socially impacting negative behaviour traits, just to be noticed and gain attention.

Old people tend to refer to clothes as being an 'outfit'; I can only assume that's what your grandmother meant, in which case it seems she (like most people) also doesn't realise that being a Goth is a state of mind and the clothes come after.
Depending on the exact specifics of your relationship with your grandmother, it's entirely possible she was simply trying to start a conversation; using clothing as something neutral you could both relate to. Perhaps she was trying to find a way to bond and thus repair your relationship? It's probably worth picking up on that.
For next time, perhaps try to dress up a little, but in grandmother-safe ways. Eg black velvet is good, spikes are bad. When I visit my grandmother, I tend to just wear dress pants and an open collared shirt over a tight t-shirt. Unoffensive is the word I'm looking for here. As with most goths, I'm not a fan of pushing people's buttons without reason, and it seems you're the same. If she's genuinely trying to take an interest in your life it'll be a good way to start talking. Hell, if you're lucky you might end up with her making you some really cool stuff. You never know.

Feel free to quote me; I don't mind as long as I don't get misquoted, and the quotes don't get taken out of context, for some subversive reason. And again I'm getting the impression that you wouldn't do that.

Have a good holiday!

I'm getting the feeling that we're similar in a lot of ways... i also am extremely upset about "the swan" . its not right!!!! why shuold anyone hve the right to tell you is you look good enough or not!? i dont really see how it matters anyway... i mean if you look like a model fine but theres nothing wrong with you if you dont look like that either!i mean i certainly dont look like a model. firt of all i'm not tall enough... i'm not that short but just a little under average hight. and also i dont wear makeup. besides the fact that a larege percentage of models are anorexic and air brushed. so this show makes me really mad. i mean after being told that they have to change in the end only one of them is good enough. how do all the others feel in the end? i mean after they're changed all that and they're still not good enough... thats sort of one of the reasons i dont watch american idol. i dont know where you live ior if you get it. but its a show where people get up on stage and then the critics rip them to pieces. very rearely are they very nice. and personally having something similar but far less public... choir try out years ago... happen to me i can see how damaging it is to feel humiliated. but i think that a lot of reality tv is like that. what about that creepy show... i dont know what its called i just remember seeing the comercial for it... they had to hang suspended from metal hooks in. i mean why would anyone do that to them selves? hooks... right through their backs.... jsut hanging there...*shudder* i coulndnt do that.

thanks for explaining masonites to me... they probably do give us a bad name...

i'm struggeling about my grandma... she wants to get to know me better i think but after 17years of not really talking to me... why now have i suddenly become interesting? and i'm not sure that i want to tell hre about myself... i generally dont like to do that as a rule.... i'll keep in mind grandmother safe clothes for my next visit... that was what i was trying to do with just wearing my black jeans and a black t-shirt its too hot there to wear too much black... she can be very snipy sometimes and grouchy and stuff... i'm not sure she means it but it kinda damages your relationship if you come to visit when you're like 2 and then she makes you cry because you got yelled at. so in a way i want to repair the relationship but in a way i dont... i just really dont know what to do about the whole thing! ????? but she'd never make me anything cool. if i'm lucky sometimes she'll get around to making some bananna bread for everyone but thats the extent of it.

i wont misquote you. i'd hate to do that to someone. and i wont take things out of context... when that happens you might as well misquote the person its almost the same thing.

and no, i dont like to puropse ly push peole buttons. thats not the point... if just being goth is enought for someone to nit like yo then fine thats there problem, but it dont think i should go out of my way to annnoy people. thats why i dony play bauhaus or metallica when theres other people around. at first i questioned wether i was doin git becasue i was hiding who i was or something... but now i realise that its actually that no one i know likes that kind of thing and theres no reason to bug them. i know how i feel when people play rap...

and thanks i'll have fun on my 2 day holiday... i'm going soon.. i just had to come and answer this first.

Jerms...can i add you to my friends list?

Just for the recored I gave up trying to be goth and just became individual. Since then I have been labelled goth more. So I guess good things come to those who wait... Or something. Have I posted my band website on this thread yet? I don't want to seem monotonous and do it again.

nope you havnt posted that here yet... can i add you to my friends list?

about being goth... i'm still waiting for someone to jump out from behind a bush shouting "you! ha! you're not goth!" more or less simply becausei dont wear all blac all of the time. but im not about ot go and buy a whole new wardrobe just to fit the description to a t. and at any rate i've got the whole mind set or whatever so i can wait till the next time i need to buy clothes to get some more black things. and i'm not sure but i dont think you have to wear all black... do you? i mean i have this very nice light blue shirt with twwedle dee and trweedle dum on it that i'd hate to have to stop wearing... and if that was the case i would have to go individual ro whatever because it seems silly to me to have to look a very particular way just to be goth.... im beginning to ramble and express myself poorly... oh dear... i hope you all understand what i mean...

Ah so I'm not the only one to hate the swan. Also the local student mag had a column with a bit of a rant about it too. And yeah we got American Idol as well; I suspect everyone did. As well as a spin-off for each country. Most people I know watched about two episodes of NZ Idol, and then ignored it until it went away. If that.

As for the one with the suspension hooks; we'll probably get it here in about four months or so, depending on how popular it is there... our standard fare seems to be the worst american TV has to offer.
The "Guy Who Was My Best Friend Until The Bullsh*t In March", got suspended in the same way as a birthday present to himself. It was sort of cool if you don't mind watching it. I have videos and photos of it on my computer at home. Good times...

Job: AL's right, you haven't added the link yet. But you're about to!

Don't worry about rambling; just look at the size of my posts... sometimes I wish I had less of an opinion on stuff.
And I'm sure you can guess what I'm going to say about wearing /only/ black. One of my ex-gf's was more central to the international 'goth scene' than I ever expect to be, and her favourite top was a bright pink hooded sweatshirt. I picked up a nice silver top the other day, and my favourite one is light grey... with a logo even. Mindset first, remember? If you've already got the mindset then you're already a goth no matter what you're wearing. If you haven't got the mindset then you're not a goth. And if you're trying to get the mindset then you have serious issues!

As for your grandma... "...after 17 years of not really talking to me... why now have i suddenly become interesting?" People change, and not just you. It's possible she's just realised that you're growing up and she's missing out. Maybe she realised she doesn't really know you any more, and wants to. Despite her grouchiness.
As with everything else in life, I recommend you just do whatever you really want to. If you don't want to visit her, don't. Of course, I realise that you may not have that option, especially if you still live with your parents (do you? I don't know.) But people always choose what they think is the best choice for them at the time, given the options.
So it boils down to: " *shrug* I'll do it." or " *shrug* I won't." Either way, there's no point stressing about it, because stress doesn't help.

And at this point I say " *shrug* Sure! Add me to your friends list!" Besides, I added you yesterday. Most people won't mind. Everyone likes to be accepted; especially when it's by people they value the opinion of.

marvelous!!!! at last! you've no idea how ong it took me to be able to post here.... all night its beein ttying to tell me i have no friends, conversations, ect. and then i've had to try at least 6 times to post to this conversation. grrr.... i'm almost at the point of taking my computer moniter and shaking it violently.


"sometimes I wish I had less of an opinion on stuff." never wish that... i think having an opinion is a wonderful thing. it gives you something to talk about wiht other people. and besides i like your long posts. they're fun to read. little one sentence ones can be so dissapointing sometimes.

"Mindset first, remember? If you've already got the mindset then you're already a goth no matter what you're wearing. If you haven't got the mindset then you're not a goth." thanks once again for that... if seems i constantly need to be reminded... well not reminded whati actaully mean is reassured. i told my cousin about being goth, well actually she asked me... and then she just kinda scoffed and told me that i dont look very goth. and i think that one of my problems. no one would believe me if i told them... i dont actually look goth and it seems most people think i like to listen to hip hop . i'm jsut so used to hiding the way i feel about things taht i've gotten to be too good at it. so no one really understands... does that make any sence?

and about my grandma... i'm jsut a mass of jumbled confusion about that. i talked to my mom and it seems that my grandma was purposely waiting for me to be old enough to be interesting. i'm not sure. just last visit she told me that the reason she never used to hug me was that she was waiting for me to iniciate contact... she wanted me to be the one to make the first move... well that was a big mistake. and i'm sorry for her. but i ended up being the kind of person that would be able to talk to her and such if she had started our relationshhip eary on... but in the end i may still try and talk to her. i'm just not going out there to vistit by myself... its ok if the rest of may family is there because then i dont feel trapped. but there again i'm probably expressing myself poorly... and i wont stress about it, i'm too busy stressing about my dentist appointment that i have on thursday.

ok right after this i'm going to add yo to my friends list... this time i promise. no more getting side tracked...

oh! i forgot... and as if the last post want long enough
"Everyone likes to be accepted; especially when it's by people they value the opinion of."
thats a very nice theing to say... that is if you mean yo vanue my opinion... and even if thats not what you mean its still a nice thing to say... its true that every one likes to be accepted, and yet we must all be so careful that we dont risk loosing ourselves in order to please others and so be accepted.... because in the ind its not really them accepting you, yourself, anyway. but then maybe not every one has to watch out for that... i jsut see it happen all the time. so sad really. and its no fun at all, not at all *trails off mumbling ot herself about how its not a good idea to compromise who you are for someone else*

Sure add me to ur friends list ill appreciate the publicity.

http://www.actofsupremacy.o-f.com/home.htm is my band website.

As for individuality... I don't know. You don't have to follow a culture completely to be a part of it. You can like a few songs from a band and call yourself a fan can't you?

"You don't have to follow a culture completely to be a part of it. You can like a few songs from a band and call yourself a fan can't you?"
interesting. i never really looked at it that way. thats what i love about talking to you guys. i can see things from a different point of view, things i never thought of. like it never occured to me to compare a culture and being a fan of a band. but this whole belonging thing is too new to me. i mean for years and years i tried to fit in wiht the semi popular kids. that didnt really work. and when i was like in gr.4 i was totally a populare girl. it absolutely disgusts me to think of it now! its all such a show! and so fake! so almost my entire life i've jsut wandered allong not belonging anywhere. so suddenly happening allong and finding this is a new and strange thing. and my brain is still screaming 'no! wait! its too good to be true! one morning you'll wake up and it'll all be taken away, and you'll not belong again.' but now thats enough of my crying on someones whoulder, or whatever.

bands are fun. i cant really play an instriment, buti do sing. i'd sing in a band but no one i know has a band, well thats not quite true. but i'm not all that into country music. i have only one goth RL friend and hes about 30 so needless to say he never does anything wiht me. i just used to work with him, and we're still in touch. hes got a band though. i totally love them! i've only heard 2 of their songs. but they're a great goth band. they dont have a cd or anything but i'll be one of hte only ones to get one. becaue they're inly going to make a demo. i think theres some legal problem when you do cover songs. but anyway... maybe one day i can see one of their concerts. i jsut need to find someone to go with me... and that'll be a problem.i cnat say i know anyone who actually likes goth music. well there is one person. but the trouble is that i cant find out if anyone likes this particular band because the songs he gave me i cant let anyone listen to becaue they're not finished. and anyway dont people tend to do drugs at concerts? i mean i dont do drugs so that couls be a bit of a dilemma...

but anyway thats a long enough post. i've added you to my friends list. and good luck with growing your tongue longer...

Thank you. I may have to have plastic surgery for that but still it'll be worth it.

I wouldn't call it fake, I'd just call it unorigional.

Drugs can go round at concerts, they never check the shoes, but not everyone does them. It's not like a load of random junkies are gonna come up to you, stick needles in ur arms, tablets down your throats and joints in your mouth. It'd be a bit of a waste if they did.

Everyone should see 13 going on 30 for a view into 'cool' kids behaviour. I know that films a load of cheese for 12 year old girls who still don;t understand the concept of morals and 'yeah right' but meh. How sad am I that I've seen it?

Oh. And you should just go to a concert on your own if you like the band. If they're just starting off then there won't be that many people there. You can always meet people by going up to someone saying hi and asking if you can have a bit of their drink. (Introduce yourself and make some small talk first). I've managed to meet many girls that way.

Or if you don't drink ask for a drag of their ciggarette.

Or if neither then just start talking to someone. They're normally really friendly despite not looking it.

well i ddont drink and i dont smoke so that wont work. and i'm pretty shy and my mom probably wouldnt let me go by myself, i'm not even suer if she'd let me go wiht just a friend and no adult... i still live wiht my parents so thats a bit of an issue. and the remark about the drugs... i wasnt really worried about being made ot take them myself... its that the friend i want to take does drugs... so i'd feel kinda odd standing there while she does. but if i decide to go then i'm sure it will all work itself out. but i'm not even suer if they're doing concerts yet. so i have a while to make up my mind.

its true that they're unoriginal but it also true that a lot of them are fake... and by that i mean that some of them can be quite nice on their own, but that as soon as they rejoin their group they suddenly dont know you. and can be very not nice. and things like taht. i also dont appreciate the ones that put on makeup and perfume during math class... one girl put it on so strong that it gave me a headache.

So find a really cool adult an take them. Or lie through the teeth. That always works for me. Drag a friend who dioesnt take drugs along. Even if they don't like the music theres always other stuff they can do there.

Suddenly the term fake has soo much more meaning. I never really got it before but yeah now it makes sense.

i dont know any cool adults. none at all. and i cant lie becasue my mom has an uncany way of finding out. i dont know how she does it, but she does. and i think that i'll take my aforementioned friend allong wiht me. i dont think she's the kind of person who whould do that to me. so it should be ok, if i even end up going.

and i'm gald it now makes sence. i really cant stand the 'cool' girls. they drive me crazy.... and i think its so sad how many people care so much about what everyone thinks of them. i even know someone who wont dress up for halloween because shes afraid of what people'll think. and everyone dresses up on halloween. and i think thats really sad. but i do owe her a big thanks. its because of her that i came and read this very good entry. she, in a very accusitory and not very nice mannor, told me that i was acting goth. and she kept naking jokes abou it. but she ment it as an insult. so a nice pat on the back for her, and a really good laugh for everything not turning out the way she'd imagined it.

I never understood how calling someone a goth is insulting. Goth is (in my opinion):
1. A style of architecture
2. A media style i.e Music, Films, everything we've just been talking about
3. Two civilisations from the time of the Roman Empire.

A person can never be gothic, they can just have gothic tastes and interests. Because once they become gothic, they'll no longer call themselves goths so it'll cancel itself out Q.E.D. Or so I believe, I don't know you might have different opinions on the subject.

hmmm interesting. the way i see it i would have put a 4 on your list... one for being, not gothic, but goth. for those that belong to the small subculture, or whatever you call it. maybe i shuold be somehow attached to the music.... not really sure. because i'm pretty sure that goth people exist, and i dont mean gothic. afterall what is that whole page about if it doesnt exist. and if no one can be goth then dont we jsut have a lot of people wearing black, sometimes being a little depressing?
but i may be very hidiously wrong.....
thats jsut the what i thought...

There's a point but erm... yeah... erm...

HEY LOOK AN ELEPHANT

*Runs*

Maybe the term goth should just be used for the first three then a different name can be thought of for the 4th one. That would make alot of sense. Or maybe the subculture should have the name but the individuals shouldn't. That would work. Or did you just say that. Then there's no exclusion between 'goths' and other cultures/ sub-cultures etc

oh dear... now i'm really quite confused.

if you like we can think up a name for all of us taht are 'goth' and then laugh as people look at us confusedly.

but yeah... i'm a littlew confused...

*looks around*
elephant! what elephant!? where???!!!!

Wow I turn my back for a weekend and suddenly I have a lot to catch up on! Okay, here we go!

"i told my cousin about being goth... she just kinda scoffed..." Her problem. Neither your problem nor your fault.

"...grandma was purposely waiting for me to be old enough to be interesting..." Um. That really says a lot more about your grandmother than about you. Again, I think it's her problem, not yours.

Good luck with the dentist.

And yes, I do value your opinion. Both of you seem to be people I agree with a heck of a lot.
"...don't risk losing ourselves in order to please others..." Um. Yeah, that swat eye meant. Of course, if you don't value someone's opinion, then why would you want their acceptance anyway?

BTW, Job, do you realise the two links on your page, on your band's site, both go to the same place?

"You can like a few songs from a band and call yourself a fan..." Absolutely! Like um... hmm. I'm sure there are non-goth bands that I like... Gimmee a second... um. Hm.

"...my brain is still screaming 'no! wait! its too good to be true!...'" I get the very strong impression that good things only happen to me for long enough so that I know what I'm missing out on later, and no more. I try not to let my previous experiences define my expectations, though. Because otherwise I get too depressed.

Crystal Method! Of course! I like most bass, as long as it's ambient bass and not oonsty sh!t. So yeah there are heaps of bands that I like which aren't part of the culture. (Karl Hyde from Underworld waved at meeee! )

AL - If you ever need a virtual shoulder to cry on, I'm here. And mine's waterproof. Depression is a contagious illness, so I know it's hard to find anyone to talk to sometimes.

I'd happily go to the concert with you, but ahaha, wrong continent.
And don't worry about drugs at concerts, that's another media overrepresentation. I've been going to concerts for years, and have had all of one (1, count 'im) stranger offer me drugs. And that was class C. Most people, you'll find, either a) Don't do drugs... they're nowhere near as common as Disney or CNN would have you believe. b) Won't take drugs to concerts... It's still illegal, and it's hard not to get caught when there are so many people around. c) Won't offer them to anyone they don't know and trust... see b).

Job - I forgot to mention before, I've been wanting a longer tongue for years too... I got a quote a few months ago for an oral surgeon to cut my lingual frenellum (that ligament under your tongue.) but he reckoned he could only increase the length by about 6mm. I was hoping for about 42. Pretty cheap, though.

I still have no desire to see '13 going on 30'. Sorry. I think it'd p!ss me off too much.

I'm not so sure about going up to people in bars and asking for a sip of their drink; That's just asking for trouble innit? Also most people would simply say 'no', and then you'd be stuffed for small talk, right? Besides, you'd get sick that way... all those different alcohols, possibility of disease from their straw/bottle/glass/etc. Bleugh.
Just stick to small talk. If you know one person there, and they each know two people, try to talk to the four people that your person knows... then you know five people, and then you can meet eight more...

"...the friend i want to take does drugs..." Well that can be socially awkward, especially if she does it in a concert. How much it affects YOU depends on what type of drug, I guess. If it's just pot then she'll just pretend it's a cigarette, and that's the most likely situation. Still not a cool thing to do, though. Especially if she knows you're anti.

"...as soon as they rejoin their group they suddenly dont know you..." Yet again, it's their problem. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's about you. In this case it's their insecurities, and has nothing to do with you. They're too worried about being excluded, too worried about what the rest of their group will think, that they're willing to exclude others in order to stay 'in'.
If you're lucky you'll be able to find others who were also 'excluded', but don't care and have formed their own group because they get on with each other and don't want anything to do with the bitchiness and insecure social practices of the 'popular' groups.
I was fairly popular when I was young, right up until I was about nine. After that the 'unpopular' group were the only ones who were honest enough with their own feelings to talk to me. So that's the group I stayed with.

"...a really good laugh for everything not turning out the way she'd imagined it." You just reminded me of a fantastic book you should read if you ever get the chance, it's called 'Illusions', by Richard Bach. He also wrote 'Jonathan Livingstone Seagull' which is also pretty cool and it's the book I got my middle name from.
Illusions is about how reality works, and how people work, and what people could do if they know the reality of this world instead of just the illusions in front of it.

"...once they become gothic, they'll no longer call themselves goths so it'll cancel itself out." Nah I disagree with that. Most goths deny being a goth, but I find that's mostly because they don't want to be labelled, either to avoid any semblance of conformity or because they want to keep people off-balance. 'Goth' now refers to the three you mentioned, plus the Goth subculture.
"...maybe the subculture should have the name but the individuals shouldn't..." Don't get confused between 'goth' (noun) and 'gothic' (adjective). The name of a subculture is always derived from the individuals contained within it, not just used to describe an attribut e of them. Eg. Gothic architecture was made by members of the goth civilisation. You can't say that the architecture itself is goth, but it has gothic attributes. So: I am a goth. I am a member of the goth subculture. I wear gothic clothing. etc.

Elephant? Er. I'm sorry, I was hungry?