h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The Doctor who was voted in for saving the hospital in Wyre Forest captured the sort of loyalty and imagination of voters, it would seem, that politicians in the normal vein seem to lack. If only politics felt like that all of the time, you could bet your bottom dollar there wouldn't be turn-outs of -50%

He received 28,000 + votes!!! And a majority not far short of that figure either! - that's truly amazing.

moving the conversation back a step...

I think there is a good chance that after the next election the Liberals will be the official opposition & will then go on to form the next non Labour government.

I really hope you are correct about that, Happy Dude (Scout).

Here in the US, no one's allowed to use the word "liberal" anymore. It's treated as being vile pornography.

The only political argument in this nation is which candidate can be more conservative then the next one. Seemingly, an all-powerful satanic wizard named Ronald Raygun managed to hypnotize the entire body-politic twenty years ago.

If the Lib-Dems DO win the next British election, could you fine folks consider recolonizing this poor unfortunate continent?? Thanks.

Happy, that wont happebn and you know it. kennedy was saying it would happen this time, and he was wrong. they still ahve the image of pointless to vote for. the tories will sort themselves out and ciome back strogly, but labour will have a third term. not that it matters. all three would raise taxes, bow to public pressure and not do anything otherwise were they in power. theyre all the same. if i were abkle to have voted, i wouldnt have. [politics is a waste of time here. nothing gets done

such cycicism my miserable chum.

This is supposed to be a participartory democracy. So participate! Its mostly apathy and inertia that keeps things are they are. The only way things ever change for the better is when people campaign for that change in sufficient number.

I reckon that the main story of this Uk election was the low turnout - especially in safe seats. Apathy or Antipathy? Certainly a signal that the politicians should be worrying over.

If we accept that politics isn't working, that the main parties aren't representing the views of the electorate, then its time to invent some new parties that do...

*jumping off soapbox, now all ears*

pj

antipathy. no one didnt vote simply cos they couldnt be bothered. it was an allergic reaction to the dross and the sniping and the sleaze

Spoilt ballot papers and abstentions = antipathy. Uncle D the politicians will choose to call 'staying at home' apathy, it suits them better.

Bring in preferential voting, then all our votes would count . I've seen 'Constituent MP' in action at close quarters, it looks like vote buying to me. (I get you your planning approval, even if its against all planning guidelines and your neighbours interests, and you vote for me.)

I've never really had this almost-religious faith in democracy that seems to have infiltrated Britain from across the Atlantic in recent years. It is merely the 'least-worst' system we've come up with. Even if it worked perfectly, I see one insoluble problem with it - 90% of the people one meets are too damn stupid to be trusted with a vote.

Corruption is actually a more honest system than democracy, come to think of it. Corruption works along these lines: "You do something for me, I'll do something for you". Democracy works thus: "I make you large numbers of vague promises, you vote for me, I then do what the hell I like and forget all the promises".

PF I'm not happy with your idea that corruption is a better system than democracy. Corruption will only work if you've got something with which bribe someone with. I as a humble civil servant can't compete on the bribing stakes with someone with bags of cash, like say, Philip Morris or Exxon.

What I think you're suffering from is a belief that your vote won't change anything. Sadly in the UK that is perfectly true. Our "two party, first past the post" system will by definition disenfranchise at least 50% of the electorate. What we (desperately) need is form of preportional representation where the views of ALL citizens are reflected.

I didn't say 'better', I said more honest! I wasn't trying to put corruption forward as a political system, merely making a point about how our system seems to rely on freely-breakable promises.
I'm not sure about PR, as such, maybe the single transferable vote might be the solution. I'm a firm believer in MP's representing their constituency, not their party. The current party system is what annoys me most - I think we can agree on that.

Ok here is how I see the Liberals coming to power assuming PR is not introduced;

Between now & the next election I see the Conservatives splitting in to two parties (one pro & one anti Europe). Come the next election with the Conservative vote split Labour win (assuming no major cock-ups by Blair&co over the next five years) & the Liberals become Her Majesties Official Opposition, then when eventually Labour loose an election the Liberals will sweep to power & introduce PR.

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As for the Stupidity of the electorate, here is a rough quote from a SkyNews TV interview with a BNP (the Fascist party) voter in Oldham;

Interviewee: “Well I'm not a raciest, I got black friends”

Interviewer: “So why did you vote BNP ?”

Interviewee: “don't know, my friends & my family were voting BNP you know…”

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I hope you will all excuse me now, while I go and bang my head on a brick wall.

Yes PF, the current party system is annoying. And it is also dishonest, as within both Labour and the Conservatives there are threads of opinion that disagree violently with one another on many issues (Anne Widdecome v Ken Clarke over Europe for example). Under a PR system the parties could split into more comfortable groups without sacrificing the chance of being electable as part of a coalition.

Under a PR system we would never again have a single party in control of Government, but then we haven't had a single party with over 50% of the vote since (I think) 1951. Thatcher's landslide victories of 1983 and 1987, plus Blair's in 1997 and 2001 have all been achieved on around 43% of the popular vote.

The PR systems that were used for the London Assembly elections and for the European elections both worked very well. They kept as many of the benefits of a local representative as was possible, but also meant that the widest range of views were represented.

As to the success of the BNP in Oldham. Well its a worrying development that 11,000 people vote for a fascist party, and I guess that the 74,000 in Oldham who didn't vote for the BNP are pretty pig sick about it. I don't believe that BNP result is electorially relevant on a nationwide basis, as the British have always been pretty tolerant of difference and have never shown much enthusiasm for facism in the past. However it is a relevant issue for the people of Oldham and it is for them to try to bring their communities back together and it is for us to give them what ever support they need to achieve this.

this all diverts from the real problem, viz. all the parties are the same and useless. it doesnt matter anyway whether or how you vote

cynic

you know me too well

UH is largely right - I can't imagine any party, once in power, changing the way they got into power! (Labour said, during the '97 Election that they would introduce PR (IIRC) and have they - apart from where they were bound to win anyway!).

The bad thing about PR is that you get Hung Parliaments - and nothing actually gets done. At least with the current system things do get done (OK, so a lot of them are self serving for the party in power, and only done to ensure re-election...)...

i truly despise politics in all its vainglorious pointlessness

Well that's a good healthy attitude! Do you believe in true Anarchy then? When we can all do whatever we like as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else?

Coalition governments don't seem to hurt Holland, Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark.... want me to continue?

(And before you mention Italy in reply, they're doing pretty OK as well)

no, i hate the prospect of anarchism even more.

politics is a sadly necessary evil