h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yeah. I liked the piece about God clarifies "do not kill" rule. This piece was even pre 9/11. I remember reading it when it came out, had a good laugh. Almost threw up when someone last year pointed out that everything had come true...

dave

sorry that post was confusing. The bush inauguration was pre 9/11, not the other.

dave

sergeantFlipper: I think the biggest problem the Armed Forces face is the lack of understanding the civilian population has about what the military actually do. It occurs to me that a more realistic advertising slogan for the military might be "Getting Shot At So You Don't Have To Be".

I used to work with a former Colour Sergeant of the Royal Marines. Some of the stories he told about serving in Northern Ireland bring to mind the situation I see developing in Iraq now.

Like or loathe President Bush, all he's doing is what successive leaders have done in various countries around the world: protecting the concerns that keep the nation's economy going. I think many people forget how precarious the western lifestyle is and how dependant we are on the exploitation of other nations to keep that lifestyle going. I have come to believe that people would much rather rant about how unfair/despotic/evil governments are than actually do anything to change the situation. While that state of mind continues, nothing will get any better.

S. Flipper
I can only read the news but this is what I've read.

The contractors and sub-contractors are different people.
You are more than likely seeing the sub-contractors. Hallburton had military contracts long standing and long before this war broke out.

There has been groaning about the large contracts. Some of it was brought on by the lack of information from the US governemnt.
The countries that did not have large contracts are often there as sub-contractors like before the war. That includes France,Russia, Germany. That part was not widely reported.

The new sub-contractors are workers from areas that accept lower wages (ones you mentioned and other Asian workers)It is said that the subcontractors doing the labor are in danger routinely like the soldiers.

Has there been rebuilding by private companies as the war is going on inother cases? I thought the military normally did that until things are more secure but I have not studied wars much.

A commonly seen headline a few weeks ago stated there are far more contractors than Brittish soldiers which seemed odd. Surely they include subcontractors in that.

Thanks again, abbi normal. That's interesting... I hope it does the good it's meant to do.

Lentilla, I've just finished a book called 'Captain America', about the philosophical/social aspects of what's happening in the USA right now with the Republiucans etc. Sadly, I just returned the book, so I don't have a note of the authors, publisher etc, but I think I mentioned it on the It's Saddam, it's Bush thread. I will see what I can find out about it - but it's an excellent book!

Good one, Dave!

Cool, Della - I'll look for it. I'm also (when I get fifteen bucks to rub together) going to get 'Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them' by Al Franken. He's also the author of 'Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot,' so I guess I'll have to get that book too! (Can't stand Rush...)

Abbi, Haliburton's contracts are not of a security nature Nor are Brown & Root (a Kellog subsidiary) What they do is build things such as base camps and they do most of the cooking. They have had standing contracts with the military for years. Camp Eagle in Kosovo was built by Brown&Root. In fact almost all foriegn bases are built by them. The chain from what I have seen goes like this. Corporate headquaters gets the contract. The foremen are US citizens (mostly retired military) that get paid 3 times what they would stateside for the same job, the workers are all foriegn nationals. Where they come from depends on the security threat. Sometimes they use local labour. Before the war I was on an airbase in a bordering country (not Kuwait) and we were using locals until the local population turned highly anti-american. The people that were doing the cooking tried to sabotage the food. Broken glass or some such thing. After that they brought some people in from the Balkans.
In Iraq it took several months before any contractors at all showed up. In Baghdad there is a flurry of activity. However the "Green Zone" around Baghdad International Airport is huge at this point and there is so little danger there it is not funny. Here in Ramadi it is a little differnt. For construction projects we use a combination of our own engineers (although they are spread really thin) and local labor. Haliburton is not at all involved. There is a sheik that is getting rich off of the contracts we give him. This is a good thing as he has used his people to help protect us. Some people he can talk to to change their minds about attacking others he passes names on to us so we can catch the bad guys.
We have relied a lot on the local economy. From hiring locals to do work on our compound to the mess sgt buying fresh vegetables. Individual soldiers do a lot too. Buying lunch or pirated DVDs from the locals. The ammount of money we have pumped into this town has really jump started their economy.
There is a growing industry of informing here. Sometimes it is difficult to weed out the real tips from the revenge tips.
Well, I hope that helped you out a little

<<The ammount of money we have pumped into this town has really jump started their economy.
There is a growing industry of informing here. Sometimes it is difficult to weed out the real tips from the revenge tips.<<
So, the invasion has been all to the good, then? Sorry, I feel just a tad cynical about it all...
Revenge tips have led to some horrifing events in Afghanistan - or so I have heard over the years...

Len is Rush still on the air or did the revelations about his drugs taking put his employers ina position where they could no longer keep him on.

Hey Sarge

what kind of training do the Army engineers have? I always hear stories about them offering to do massive civil projects (in more peaceful times). How is it structured? How much work, and what size projects are they capable of?

dave

Rush came back on the air when he got out of Rehab. I'm assuming he's still on, despite allegations...

When he came back, he made a point of saying how "they" don't try to brainwash people at the rehab centers, that "they're not idealogical like some people say". Which was funny, b/c I figured Rush was probably the one would say that kind of thing...

btw. Al Franken's book "Why Not Me?" is also really funny. It's a fictional book about him running for president, and getting into some Clintonesque scandals.

dave

Thanks sarge, that all is interesting.
Much of what you said would have been my next question!

B-R-K are more of who I was wondering about.
Halliburton is an off shoot from them I believe, is that right?
I am aware the Halliburton contracts for serving the military as you described and in place for a long time. That purpose has been written about a lot.

I did hear yesterday there are efforts to get the National IraQ Oil Company organized. That might help, My main point is about how things look to those Iraquis deciding wheher the US is an occupier or friend at this point, not only the US tax dollars and intentions.

There was a stink about the bridges and other construction costing 3 times what they should so it is not just about the salaries being high. I did not think those companies were of the security nature but that they need protection, some security to do their work.

I was curious if rebuilding has started during the war or if this is considered post war? Who is doing the rebuilding that they talk about weekly? Is it happening? Isn't that headed by R-B-K also?

I know since the begining of time there are the spoils of war and profitteering but there should be more oversight it sounds like. That sort of info is very right and left politically oriented info it seems

We do not get much info on what is actually happening in the ways that you describe and fewer pictures. They do talk about wide differences in the various areas.

It seems if there is a Nation with uncommon amount of military and economic power they are capable of using it as effectively for peace as they do for war.



CEIP a respected research institute puts out a report assessing the war.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0108/dailyUpdate.html?s=mets

"Democracy cannot be exported"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0108/p09s02-coop.html

nice links abbi,
here's one on security screw ups
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/01/09/security/index.html

there is nothing like reasonable, informed, logical political debate. Unfortunately in there doesn't seem to be much of that coming from the right in the USA at the moment. Take a look at the latest anti-Dean spot from the "Club for Growth"

Here's the script:

Male, physically imposing but clean-cut looking husband with wife walking from barber shop.
Announcer off-screen: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HOWARD DEAN’S PLANS TO RAISE TAXES ON FAMILIES BY NINETEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR?

Husband turns to answer with mildly annoyed expression.
Husband: WHAT DO I THINK?
WELL, I THINK HOWARD DEAN SHOULD TAKE HIS TAX HIKING, GOVERNMENT-EXPANDING, LATTE-DRINKING, SUSHI-EATING, VOLVO-DRIVING, NEW YORK TIMES-READING . . .
Wife takes over in mid-sentence.
Wife: . . . BODY PIERCING, HOLLYWOOD-LOVING, LEFT-WING FREAK SHOW BACK TO VERMONT, WHERE IT BELONGS.

Husband cocks his head.
Husband: GOT IT?

Flash effect to transition out of shot of couple, replaced by words on a screen.

“Say NO to Howard Dean’s GIANT TAX Increase.”

“PAID FOR BY THE CLUB FOR GROWTH PAC
NOT AUTHORIZED BY ANY CANDIDATE OR CANDIDATE’S COMMITTEE.
www.clubforgrowth.org”
Announcer: CLUB FOR GROWTH PAC IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONTENT OF THIS ADVERTISING




Salon.com's Joe Conason had this to say about the absurd attack ad, which shed a bit more light on just who pulls which strings in US politics
(start quote)
"According to club president Stephen Moore, this stream of invective describes "cultural elites across America who are the ones behind Dean," who are so unlike the "middle-class families with Middle America values, as in Iowa, [who] are going to be very turned off by Dean's economic program."

Moore and his club of corporate Republicans have a long history of stirring up Midwestern rubes with demagogic advertising, but this ad's script achieves new heights of hypocrisy. "Hollywood-loving?" Not long ago, Moore declared himself "honored" to accept an advisory position in the new administration of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, an actor not known for his adherence to "Middle America values."
That's only the first layer of phoniness in Moore's attack. There is in fact nothing "middle-class" or "Middle American" about the Club for Growth, an outfit financed and operated by such wealthy ideologues as Thomas "Dusty" Rhodes, Richard Gilder and Lawrence Kudlow.

Rhodes spent nearly two decades at Goldman Sachs. Gilder has been a stockbroker since 1954 and operates his own firm. Kudlow, of course, is the genial CNBC host and Wall Street economist (whose style of Savile Row tailoring is rarely seen in the barbershops of middle-class Middle America). All three gentlemen reside in New York City, a place even more akin to Sodom than Burlington, Vt.

And let's not forget Club for Growth co-founder Ed Crane, the president of the Cato Institute, where Moore himself is a senior fellow. What would Iowa's middle-class Middle Americans think of Cato's ongoing advocacy of full drug legalization? How would that couple leaving the barbershop feel about Cato's staunch opposition to the war in Iraq, and almost every other exercise of American military power abroad?

Most Middle Americans might regard such hippie-dippie libertarianism just as grimly as body piercing, Volvo driving, latte drinking, and New York Times-reading. They also might not appreciate Cato's gay rights activism, embodied by executive vice president David Boaz. (Indeed, most of Middle America would probably be shocked by Boaz's views of marriage -- which he believes shouldn't be regulated by government at all.)
(end quote)

You can see the tv spot here:http://www.clubforgrowth.org/