h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Dreemer youare adept at postmodern rhetoric. Despite the inevitable confusion withstanding I believe you wish to make the following point.

The US cannot win the hearts and minds of Iraq because the motives are not altruistic. Clearly they are pecuniary.

Indeed war has always generated wealth for some and death for others.
Why in 2003 should the status quo be challenged? Perhaps because you believe there has been enough written about how wrong we have been in the past. Or is it because the publishers haven't been convinced that your contribution would sell?

Or you have been published but your not happy with the sales. Which one is it Dreemer?

You thinking, writing, or just plain peeved Dreemer? I could have gone for a McDonalds man!

Since I'm around I'll comment.
Sure U.S. behaviour isn't unusual for a powerful nation.
Others such as Russia or China behave much worse to the extent that their power allows them too but that doen't make U.S. actions acceptable. Also since the U.S. is by far the most powerful nation around it is able to interfere more often and in far more places than anyone else.

rokdreemer: Suspicion of WMDs has turned out to be a lousy reason for invading Iraq, but it may very well have been supported by US intelligence - since most of this is classified, we'll only find out about it long after everyone's indignation about our reasons for invading Iraq fades. As for Al Qaeda (sp?) links, they were only implied by the phrase "Al Qaeda-like terrorist organizations." Bush's speechwriters deliberately put in such an easy-to-misinterpret phrase to make Saddam look even worse, it's true, but this phrase was blown way out of proportion.

Next point: like it or not, the US is spreading democracy. Granted, this democracy hasn't helped anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq as of yet, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was post-WWII Japan, for instance.

Of course, you're right about the US always being eager to spread its commercial dominance, but $87 billion is a pretty steep price tag for occupying a violent and unstable fraction of the Middle East. Where's the profit for the US?

Have i come to believe ive been called a troll? "TROLL" shut up rockhead

Back on track..I'm off line at 22:50 UK local. Good Night

BABOON...Dreemer digs his own holes..sit back and watch..it's fun!

he a grave digger?

If you read post 5216, you would note who, exactly, was being referred to as the "troll".

I have no problem with the odd misspelled word (Lord, knows, I have misspelled a few, myself). What I really object to is the inability of certain people to post anything but illegible nonsense and/or nasty digs at other people Case in point: Oetzi suggesting that someone should "S@d off". As I understand that to be a fairly rude thing to say to someone, that, is without doubt what got him Yikesed.

In the last few weeks, we have heard little but rudeness and nonsensical ramblings from certain people, and the frothings of several people who both haven't read the initial post to know what the topic is really about, and little or no knowledge of either world history or American history (the REAL history, not what they picked up from watching "Black Hawk Down" or "Saving Private Ryan").

No one has suggested that one needs to read every single post on this thread, but reading the initial one, and a few recent ones might help people post something that only serves to point out the fact that 1) they can't read, 2) they don't know the first thing about history.

With a very few exceptions, no one has had anything the least bit credible on either side of the issue at hand, if, indeed, they bothered to post anything but whatever was prompted by too much beer.

I would much rather have an educated discussion with someone I didn't agree with, than have to pore through cr@p that I might agree with if I could make heads or tails of what was being written. If there is one thing I have learned in life, the sign of a true intellectual is someone who has taken the time to reason their viewpoint, and is open to listening to a differing, equally reasoned viewpoint, willing to accept or reject that opinion without predjudice, and willing to have their opinion accepted or rejected without predjudice.

I have no respect for anyone who has a "firm opinion" based on what is the popular stance, or without having done their homework.

I am sure that people who actually want an intelligent and respectful discussion are to be found elsewhere on H2G2.

Montana, wherever you are.... I may or may not agree with everything you said, but I can guarantee you, I would welcome sitting down with you over coffee to discuss any topic. I am sure that, even if we had polar opinions, I would enjoy any discussion with you.

yeah your right

for once

Anybody seriously attempting to take America to task must surely ponder why the Sumerians are not more widely discussed.
Of course the American nation has delivered and developed both brilliant(medical/Aerospatial/Scientific) advances and terrifying(McCarthyist Blacklisting/Chemical/Biological Weaponry)backward steps upon the road to humanity's enrichment.
Our frame of reference as a civilisation is so narrow-band that we cannot be truly certain that other, more technologically advanced systems/tech. haven't been around before ours.
And if you think that is a preposterous statement, try travelling on ### trains on a weeknight after 22:00!
I am of the opinion that, (given time/ruling out GW Bush accidently pressing the wrong button) America, & most of the mass-culture may even develop the FREEDOM to appreciate (ie; no Hussein hitmen coming to silence us in the night)all cultures without relying on cliched methods, and without dogmatic responses to seemingly opposing creeds/philosophies.
judging by how adversarial and binary the political system can be, perhaps I am naive in this hope.
Where I am, if a new idea is posited, either as a policy, or merely as a proposed new method of works, it is criticised before even the most rudimentary of trials!

"Thanks for post 5037 App"

You're welcome abbi.

*********

"You lot are priveledged..you've got more 'puters than we have per head.
In the UK it will be only those with access that will benefit from this service.
Suck on that lemon this weekend!"

What are the stats around the world, anyone know?

**********

"so what if invading iraq was a bit to do with the oil?.Who wil the cash from the oil be going to? The iraqi people not saddam.It can go to help rebuild the country .So thats great news for the folk living there"

Do you really belive that, baboon? It would be great for Iraqis living there if they were getting organised and paid for rebuilding instead of american companies making huge $$ out of it.

***********

"The credit goes mostly to the USA here, from them and from the average New Zealander. It makes me kotch!"

Della, stop judging the average NZer on those talk back shows and Aucklanders.

***********

What was post 5149 all about?
I wasn't here and I'm catching b'log.

************

Ictoan, "we received a loan from the USA to help but the condition was that the load given us had to spent with USA companies only, meaning that the loan went straight back into the American economy and local UK firms that could have done the work and helped boost the economy struggled as they could not get a slice of the action, thereby compounding the economic problems of the UK and delaying the financial recovery of the country. I believe we also had to pay the load back so the USA economy got double the money, a very good investment I'd have to agree"

This is interesting. It makes Iraq look very rehashed. I've asked in general before but had no answer. Has Britain recieved any slice of the action for their part in the Iraq war?

*************

post 5173,

*************

"Of course, you're right about the US always being eager to spread its commercial dominance, but $87 billion is a pretty steep price tag for occupying a violent and unstable fraction of the Middle East. Where's the profit for the US?"

That 87bn is going to american companies. What's hard to understand?

*************

well it seems, from reading, that people are dropping like flies.

I thought rokdreemer was saying that the invasion of Iraq was purely commercial; it seems like there should be easier ways to circulate $87 billion through the US economy.

Personally, I'd be more willing to jump to the conclusion that the invasion was politically motivated; that is, Bush hadn't done a lot, and he wanted have some leverage going into the election year. Nothing makes a President more popular than "destroying the evildoers."

You have to look at it with the phrase "jobs for the boys" in mind. I suspect that many a retirement fund has been created in the funding of this war.

These are the same people to support that fairy tale that is "the trickle down effect" - which iscase you're not aware, is a way of boosting the funds of the wealthy so they can ride out a recession. And it hurts an economy.

Oetzi, I believe I will regret rejoining this fray after so long, but here is a link to the largest Spanish Language media network, which includes not only Television but Radio stations (and quite a few of them!) in most major cities in the U.S.and I believe it will answer the question you put forth in post #5193:

"Just out of general interest, I would like to know how many broadcast stations use Spanish only, or, have a significant proportion of latin programmes.

If so are these stations within or without the PBS system? They could be community charities for instance."

The UniVision network of media companies are not community charities, they are a profit making concern; they receive quite a bit of funding and monetary resources from advertising to the Latino community. It is owned and managed by Latinos, so please put away your violins!

Please check out this link:

http://www.cisneros.com/company/univision.asp

Oh, and I live about 130 miles north of Mexico, in Los Angeles. We have stations which feature Arabic, Armenian, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Japanese (I LOVE the show, "Miyamoto Musashi"!) and Farsi. And I'm probably missing a few.

Channels 22, 34 and 52 are exclusively Spanish stations. We also have numerous (about 1/3) radio stations in the L.A. area which are in Spanish. They aren't governmentally funded, either!

SC

Oetzi, in response to comments regarding Groundhog Day (February 2), I went back to the neighborhood of that date in this thread to see if it had anything to do with your references. Here's what I found, dated Feb 28 2003:

Post 2570:

" I'm resurrecting this thread so that anyone who wants to yell and scream about Americans rather than have a reasonable debate where ideas are actually exchanged and listened to can do so.

I thought it might be more theraputic than starting thread after thread yelling about everything from American government to the culture to the people themselves."


This thread had been dead for 6 months at that point, since Sept. 20, 2002. Letting it lapse again wouldn't be unprecedented. Or a big tragedy.

And, since you appear to feel your day is repeating itself over and over, I figure you must be getting tired. Let it rest, friend.

SC

So "Groundhog Day" in Oetzi's post actually referred to the day? I thought it just referred to the film of the same name, in which a man lives the same day over and over.

And over and over and over.

Since Oetzi is British like me I'd guess he was refering to the film. Most Brits had never heard of Groundhog Day before seeing the film.