h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Empty Sky,

Arnold Schwarzenegger wouldn't of been my choice for governor (then again I don't live in CA) but I think you miss some of the point with your criticism of someone who would vote for him

I'll try to get to your points one by one

1 "Their inability to separate Hollywood fantasies from life's realities"...I think you are missing the point that Arnold Schwarzenegger is actually a person..that is he has a job, he holds views and believe it or not he has thoughts...because he is an actor he does have more public recognition then say a bus driver but that by it self doesn't automatically disqualify him to be elected. He wouldn't be the first actor or celebrity to run for a political office...and I would like to point out that some of those people did an outstanding job...personally I don't hold someone's job against their ability to take a political office...hey if the trash man thinks he can do the job as mayor and show that he can then I say go for it

2. "In no other nation..." I feel sorry for people in other nations then...if you are held down by what type of work you do...or not even given a chance to prove yourself then what's the point eh?

3. "...has no particular expertise or experience when it comes to public office." that shouldn't disqualify someone from holding public office...if it did then you could never have any new politicians (would it be such a bad thing)

4. "His use of drugs..." oh my god...I thought that was at least covered by the ever popular Clinton...he did em (hopefully not while in office) and people seem to think he was pretty good as gov and pres

5. "is his misogyny" now misogyny is hatred of women...I don't think it is in any public record that he hates women...matter of fact the record stands that he likes women a little too much...but womanizing has been proved over and over again to not have an effect in your leading skills...now quite frankly I am not excusing his actions but his inappropriate actions actually have no baring on his job performance

6. "lack of diplomacy" I don't know...from what I have heard from friends working in show business that it takes quite a bit of diplomacy

7. "general self-centered attitude" now that's funny I thought all politicians had a general self-centered attitude

8. "How, then..." because he decided he wanted to run and his name was already out there...he did a very good job at diplomatically saying things but not actually saying things and he represented a very large change...which evidently was wanted

9. "...fantasy, muscle-bound, shoot-em-up hero..." ok personally I have found that having muscles doesn't actually affect a persons intellect...mater of fact one of the largest muscle bound people I have ever met was quite smart and was a very good leader...fantasy again he isn't a fantasy he is still just a guy with a job no matter what you say...and shoot-em-up...well military hero's have often gone on to political office and the have been known to do a good job...but lets look at it this way...how many people has Arnie actually shot up eh? pretty peaceful guy it seems

10. "I feel more confident than ever..." and I feel more confident then ever that this goes to show that we are willing to let people who want to run no mater who they are say a porn star, a smut dealer, small business owner, you have it they ran...nobody stopped them...nobody said hey you can't do that...so Arnie won...lets see how he does...if he does good he does good...if not then he won't be in office next time around...or even sooner if he really messes up


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"xenophobic in not allowing immigrants to be president"

it is one of those rules that at the time was a pretty good idea...and it's just stuck around...they are now looking into changeing it..will it get changed...more then likely eventualy...it prob will elvolve into a time requirement thing


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oh here is a link to the bill...

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:26:./temp/~c108VbIGQO::


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Hello tacsatduck, I'll attempt to answer your points.

1] "because he is an actor... doesn't automatically disqualify him to be elected."

True, but my point is that it's assumed that the fact he's an actor automatically qualifies him to be elected. Of course that's ridiculous. But it's assumed that the more well known a person is, the more qualified thay are to run the country. (How else can the presidency of Ronald Reagan [perhaps the worst president you've ever had] be explained?) This thinking is stupid and dangerous.

2] You feel sorry for nations in which people are required to show some inkling of qualification for public office, before being considered for it??? I don't think they're asking for your pity.

3] "has no particular expertise or experience when it comes to public office. that shouldn't disqualify someone from holding public office"

What??? Why on earth not??? That kind of thinking goes a long way towards explaining the imbeciles the US has had as presidents recently. Surely the job of running a country is a little too important to experiment with.

4] His past use of drugs (and remember there's no indication that he's stopped now) indicates two things:

In the case of the anabolic/androgenic drugs it indicates that he has no hesitation about cheating in order to achieve a particular sporting goal.

In the case of recreational drugs it indicates that he has no hesitation about flouting the law.

In both cases it's a valuable insight into his personality.

5] It's rather ignorant to call lewd and sexist behaviour "liking women a little too much". Just ask any woman you're aquainted with, how appropriate that is. Reducing women to the status of objects to be groped, definately qualifies as misogany.

6] No, showbusiness takes a talent for self-promotion. Not any particular diplomacy.

7] Only the bad ones.

8] "he represented a very large change...which evidently was wanted"

That's simply not enough. There's something wrong with the belief that it is.

9] "personally I have found that having muscles doesn't actually affect a persons intellect"

I couldn't agree more. But, also, they do not qualify a person to enter politics. And there's something seriously wrong with the belief that they do.

10] ...and meanwhile years will have ben wasted. Years in which a proper politician could've turned California's problems around.

Quelle catrastrophe!

Man that sucks...got just about done writing a nice lengthy reply...wanted to check what I had typed the first time so I hit the back button...then hit the forward button and everything was gone...whoops

1] Ronald Reagan...a lot of people would argue that he did a pretty darn good job both as gov of Cali and as president...and being an Actor didn't qualify him to be on the ballet these are the things that qualified him to be on the ballet
ehem
"Any citizen of the United States 21 years of age or older, who has been a resident of the state for five years or more immediately preceding election is eligible for the office"
that a little money and some signatures and have your self qualified to be on the ballet...to have it any other way is to limit yourself to some type of ruling class...a limited pool of people that you can draw from for public office
now he won the election...did him being an actor make him automatically the winner...well just ask the other actors he ran against...they didn't automatically get elected

2] Not quite what I was going for...what I was trying to say is this...that Joe Shmoe an intelligent pig farmer, running his own business decides he wants to run for office, he should be allowed to...will he get the office that will depend on him convincing people that he will be able to do the job...will he do a good job even if he connives people that he will...who knows? only time will tell...but if Joe Shmoe lived in another country and that country wouldn't even allow Joe to run because he was a pig farmer then I would feel sorry for that country...everybody should have the chance and choice to try

3] Ok lets look at it this way if we only let people who have had experience in public office we would be, in a short time out of people because all the experienced ones would of died off and no one could of replaced them...now on the term expertise...that's the kind of thing that leads to Career politicians...people who start themselves on a "track" to public office they start off in the system and all their experience comes from that same system...they know how to get things done alright...the same way it's always been done...that's about it they have no other experience to draw from so the gov't becomes stagnant and unchanging...now let's go back to Mr. Shmoe from number 2...as I said he's a intelligent pig farmer who has decided to run for office...he convinces people that he can do the job and he gets elected...now he comes into office and he isn't blinded by the "that's the way it has always been" thing and can look at problems with an outsiders view...does that help...often times it does...but you would deny that from ever happening?
And at no time is the Gov't to important to change or experiment with...it was built with the ability to and the safeguards for both...
and lastly I like this one
"That kind of thinking goes a long way towards explaining the imbeciles the US has had as presidents recently."
hmmm now lets see you only want people with experince in politcal office running for office...lets see the last three four presidents have had...hey whats this lots and lots of political experince good thing that...or we might of elected someone you would concider an imbecile dodged the bullet on that one (I am not saying this in a mean way...or at least not trying to...just trying to keep the mood lite)

4] I like your first point about cheating...interesting and I hadn't viewed it that way...I guess the other side of the coin would be that you could argue that he does what he has to do...which is not a very strong argument and often leads into way to many bad things

about recreational drugs...again past drug use is not an indication of whether or not someone will be bad in office...and "flouting the law" could also be someone who speeds or drives unsafely...which I don't know if you have been to Cali but is pretty much everyone there that isn't stuck in traffic

5] is it rather ignorant...oh dang...well remember I am one of those ignorant Americans I hear so much about...I still say that the word used doesn't fit the crime but that is more a matter for an Language class then this discussion...I still point out that it has been shown that being a womanizer doesn't indicate poor performance as a politician...Kennedy, Franklin, Clinton....and the list goes on

6] Opinion noted...not agreed with but noted and as it is opinion against opinion I'll just let it stand

7] ...or the historically good ones...would you like me to come up with a list of names and why I would consider them having a "general self-centered attitude" or should this one go along with 7?

8] Something wrong with wanting or needing a change and acting to make that change happen......now I understand that you think that he wasn't the right choice but to deny the right for a change wouldn't be very promising

9] the reason I put in 9 was I thought you might be leaning towards making having muscles a negative instead of a non-factor...duly noted we are in at leas somewhat of an agreement

10] A proper politician was removed from office...the people felt he wasn't getting the job done...they went for lets say a change of pace...will he succeed...possibly...will years be wasted if he does or doesn't succeed if the person he is replacing was going to fail anyway? And a Gov't

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Try typing it in your word processor first and pasting it in. That way there’s no chance of losing it.

Tascatduck, you make some good points but there still seems to be some issues you’re missing.

1] I’m not disputing that (almost) anyone can be qualified to be on the ballot. But fame, fortune, recognition and a large vastus-medialis do not make a person a serious prospect to vote for.

Oh, and Ronald Reagan was (and is) a sociopathic moron.

2] Again, I’m not disputing that everybody should have the right to put him/herself forward. But unless they can demonstrate some (however tenuous) ability to do the job well, they should not expect to get a reasonable amount of support. There was (and is) no reason whatsoever to think that Schwarzenneger has anything in the way of governorship capability.

3] I didn’t say experience should necessarily be a requirement. I also mentioned “expertise”, which covers ability. (That should be essential).

4] Breaking the law is RARELY justified, no matter what the circumstance. Being stuck in traffic certainly does not qualify.

5] It’s really rather irresponsible and offensive of you to trivialise Arnold’s behaviour towards women. It can’t, by any stretch of the imagination, be called “womanising”. Womanising would be forging a relationship with women regularly or excessively. Groping women is quite the opposite, it’s attacking them. Devaluing women to such an extent, certainly qualifies as woman-hating.

6] As you say...

7] Being self-centred could never be a good thing for a politician. If there have been some good self-centred ones, they were good IN SPITE OF THAT.

8] I didn’t say there was anything wrong with change. But it HAS to be the correct change. The wrong change can be worse than none at all.

9] Okay.

10] So there is such a thing as a bad politician. That’s not exactly news. But to replace him with no politician at all, is no advantage.

Alrighty

1.They also shouldn't be held against them...by saying that he shouldn't be voted for becuase of those things isn't any better then saying he should be voted for because of those reasons...unless using justifiable reasons such as...the reason for Mr. A's Vast wealth is due to his great leadership skills and not because his momey and dady gave him lots of money that sort of thing...I am not saying that Arnie made a lot of money because of his great leadership skills...but I don't want to paint my self into a corner
He may have been...but he was really good at being a sociopathic moron

2. Ok as long as we are looking at tenuous ability to do a good job...then we could include chairty foundations run by or started by him-such as being Executive Commissioner of the Hollenbeck Youth Center Inner-City Games in Los Angeles...takeing that and turning it into the National Inner-City Games Foundation which he currently serves as its National Chairman...being named the International Weight Training Coach of the Special Olympics and serving as a Global Ambassador to the cause being even credited of bringing the Special Olympics to China and helping to bring it to South Africa, the offical Chairmanship of the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Chairman for the California Governor's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports...being the sponsor, author, and Chairman of the After School Education and Safety Act of 2002 (Proposition 49)in Cali...then adding in some some sucessful businesses...and goodwill work with the military

3] essential but hard to messure

4] ok you will get no car rides from me

5] ok point taken but I would clasify cheating on your wife just as bad but I guess that's just me...the point I am was makeing wasn't to trivialise Arnold's behavior...my point was simply this...it doesn't have berring on whether or not he could do a good job...I at no point said he was a good man...I never said that what he did was right...the only thing I said is I don't see that it will affect his ability to do the job...

7] Ok

8] If change is good...how can you say that they are makeing the wrong change for themselfs?

10] But it's no real disatvantage either...look why leave someone you know is going to do a bad job in..you bring in someone new for the rest of the firsts time then you at least have a chance...now the person you bring in...Lets see what choices they had to chose from...the top front runners of the extra long ballet...you could bring in the second in comand from a failing adminstration...or you could choose from the list of guys that were trying for the last election and were not as good of a choice as the guy that you elected but didn't do a good enough job...or you could just go out on a limb and try for a change of pace...there were a couple of celebrities and a couple of nut balls and a couple of jokes...then you got Arnie who seems like a nice enough guy...sure he's got some skeletons in his closet but who doesn't...and becides all that stuff was quite a while ago and look at all the good things he's been doing...and you know his wife keeps him in check now anyway...heck it might just work...and if it doesn't he doesn't even have a full term in which to mess everything up and mabye by then we will have a better choice


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Don't forget that Arnold's job as governor will be to attract attention and distract people from looking at those members of the government who actually control what's going on. In that respect, he should be a great Governor.

And for all that - he's not a conservative Republican, so it could be a lot worse.

Anyone else running two identities? Would clarify and validate this thread please. Don't mind at all personally but would appreaciate uncloaking. You are not klingons and I am not starfleet, I think!

...well as I don't have any other handles on this site...or anyother site for that matter I would have to say...though I am a Star Trek fan if that's what you mean


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Tascatduck.

1] How many times???!!! I didn't say "he shouldn't be voted for because of those things". I said that those things are no reason to vote for him. Do you understand the distinction? Arnold's achievments in life are irrelevant to a career in politics. And it perfectly illustrates the stupidity of the average American that they think otherwise.

You are further proving my point by showing, here, that you lack the ability to grasp relatively simple points like that one.

2] Arnold's charity works are no more than the cynical self promotion of his movie career. And some serious sucking up to George Bush Snr. (Showing, BTW, what an extreme republican he really is).

3] No, it's not hard to measure. Intelligent non-Americans do it every day.

5] I'm surprised you don't think that an unsound attitude towards 50% of the human race would reflect badly on his ability to govern fairly!

8] Because there's no evidence (not even the slightest suggestion) that they're making the right change.

10] Geez! No-one should be surprised at the kind of stupidity that sees AS elected as Governor. With people like you around, it's not hard to see how it happened.

yep I am one of those ignorant hard headed Americans Empty...so here goes the same statements once again

1. you are holding it against him because repeatedly you have said that is the only reason he got any of those votes....there is no one in the whole frigging state that voted for any other reason???? really??? so you asked around and found out did ya? no benefit of the doubt?

2. but they are works...and they are leadership positions...and you did mention lenitive

3. and those intelligent-non Americans are right every time because they are perfect judges of characters...good thing...glad there isn't any one in your govn't that you complain about

5. why should you be surprised that I think people can change...or even work around prejudices...

8. so you have the inside track then on the next year...if you could just fill me in on everything that you know for sure now that you can back up with evidence that will happen in Ca in the next year now that Arnie is Gov it would be helpful

10. yep people like me voted the man in to office alright...people like me on the other side of the country that is...and people like me except for the fact that I said he wouldn't of been my choice but you have run right by that because I stood up to defend the reasons why someone who wasn't maybe a brain dead zombie might vote for the man...I am sorry you are have preconceptions that you cannot get past to see why someone might vote for the man...but that's ok


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and no worries...this is my last post till sometime next week

Tacsatduck, your arguments really are rather tentative now. When you've got so little left, why do you even bother?

What it comes down to is - say the population of California is 30 million - that means there are 29999999 people better able to execute the office of Governor than Arnold. It's a pretty safe bet that he'd be elected, then. Considering the precedent established by making George W Bush president.

It's perfectly symbolic and illustrative of the innate stupidity of the majority of Americans.

That stupidity seems to be the only stable, imutable fact in this rapidly changing world.

Oh well, nice to have something to rely on, I suppose.

It is just plain stupid to claim that all N Americans are stupid.
I find that insulting, not enough to be excited, but enough to tell you that you're wrong.

Uh, huh. And I think the EU is learning from America, but that's a point on which I think we'll differ. Consensus politics are great, except that you tend to end up with the lowest common denominator as the starting point, which may or may not be a good idea.

No, I take that back. It *is* a bad idea.

Yes Montana that fact often crosses my path. The probelem is that someone has to decide what that level is. That "someone" is human, usually empowered, and probably a civil servant or a politician. Quite often that decision is taken with evidence gained from statistics. Do you agree?

Yes, and that last part, about statistics, tends to be the worst aspect of it all. I'm one of those people who is highly suspicious of statistics, and the fact that governing boils down to stats based on what, for all intents and purposes, are popularity contests, frighten me.

I am proud of the fact that I am not a widget. In fact I am sort of an anti widget activist. The BBC think we're all widgets, sad is'nt it?

Found that home improvement site by the way Montana. It's a YAHOO link to NE Researchers Group. Plenty of widgets for your router here.
Generally I enjoy being a commercial widget like Arnie, but I rebel at being an institutional widget like most of us have to be.

I'm an academic widget, myself. Which is rather like opting out of the system all together. Or at least it will be when I get the PhD out of the way!