h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

On the other hand, I do get annoyed when we go to concerts (of the "classical" ilk) and the "coughing police" make a fuss disproportionate (and much worse) than the poor soul who couldn't keep a discreet cough in

As to why parents drag their kids with them on an evening out and spoil it for every other couple on their evenings out?...

Mostly, it's selfishness and lack of concern for anyone but themselves.

However, in the case I described above at the South Park film, I truly suspect that couple was just clueless and thought that since it was "animated" that automatically meant it was a kids film. At least I hope they did. I hope every mer and cer made them wince. I also hope that every sneer and jeer they got for being such inconsiderate s made them blush with embarrassment.

But I doubt it.

To make you feel better about this, consider how receptive children can be, how they pick up and remember things, and how they have an absolutely perfect sense of timing when they reveal to the entire Sunday congregation that the priest is a mer and Jesus is a cer.

or give perfect renditions whilst playing with playmobile or lego figures at nursery or school...

What goes around comes around. Some would call it karma.

The custom of parents inflicting thair offspring onthers, is becoming very antisocial. People seem to be suggesting that we not only put up with them but welcome and tolorate them.

I lookforward to adults only 20+ establishments where childern are banned.....

well, to be honest what I think about "parents inflicting their offspring on others" is that in a lot of cases the "others" just can't get over the fact that children need to learn to socialise, that some places are for everyone and that they should, on occasion, just suck it up. Or engage with the children and join in with helping them to learn how to interact with society.

On the other hand, there are places where children should not be. Pubs in the evening and cinemas etc etc. I wonder if the fact that people don't instinctively know this is because as a society we're all just a little too antisocial?

That used to be pubs, but now the children's mafia have got their feet in the doors there, too. And as you don't usually have to buy a ticket to get in, there's no one to stop them.

" there are places where children should not be. Pubs in the evening and cinemas etc etc." [Sho]

That's a bit too categorical, I think. When I go to see an animated film meant for children, I hope there will be children there so I can get a sense of how they're enjoying it. Children's cartoons are the sleepers of the cinematic world. They are made extremely well, what with the advances in computer animation and the intense competition. I don't have to worry so much about violence when I go to see them. The people who film them realize that there has to be something for the accompanying parents to enjoy, so I don't have to worry about boredom.

In any event, kids *should* have something to see at the theaters. Having something to look forward to and marvel at is part of growing up well.

I'd rather not have to deal with unattended kids at supermarkets, though it's rare to encounter them during school hours. During school vacations and in the summer, it's a different story. Tots can be charming and fun. The trick is to keep my groceries out of their reach when I put stuff on the conveyor belt.

The antisocial secition of socitey object to the fact learn how to interact with society means let them shout and scream and spoil it for every one else. Thats not learn to socialise thats teaching them to be plain antisocial. Unfortunatly the other patrons are not alowed to give them a slap even that option is denied to the parents.

I have seen someone stare at a child in such a way that it ran screaming to its mother, mental torture is even more damageing that child will never forget that day.

If they want them to learn how to interact with society in that way the ape enclousure at Longleat is the best place to put them. The remnants can feed the lions.

Childrens and parents rights are not preeminant over any other section of societiy, live and let live dont spoil things for others.

I am not above telling a child to behave if their parents don't do it, and to point out that they are spoiling other people's right to entertainment.

Over here that's not abnormal (Germany). In the UK everyone seems to be too afraid of opening their mouth (for a real or perceived reason, I can't work it out) but I've done it there and the round of nods you get as more timid people agree is annoying in the extreme.

Paul - I didn't say that children shouldn't be in a cinema for children's films but there should be an expectation that if you go to a 12 certificate film at 8:30pm there aren't going to be knee-highs and babys in there disturbing grown up entertainment.

I have a great deal of sympathy, as it happens for, say, breastfeeding mums who take babies with them to things like weddings etc where they really don't disturb anyone. But I've been considerate enough not to inflict my (well behaved, as it happens) offspring on an unsuspecting public and have either paid for babysitters or missed out on a lot of things I've wanted to do. And if my two hadn't behaved and someone had called them on it, i would have backed them up.

But I do believe children have to learn how to act in social situations, and so they need to be introduced to society in stages and we all need to have a hand in that, not just their parents/family. But that's a whole other discussion, I suspect.

I take my children to the cinema to see films aimed at children. If you are an adult watching such a film, you have to accept that it is not going to be deathly still in the auditorium.

Also, pubs and restaurants in the daytime are shared social spaces - children have to behave, not run around - but they are not banned either.

I am afraid that are some adults who have forgotten that they were ever children. Public transport is a good example - some people seem to think that a baby has an off button, or that you should get off the train in the middle of nowhere because it is crying. Life isn't like that.

sprout

totally agree

I became far more understanding and tolerant when I became a grandfather.

Seems to have coincided with me posting here less and less, funnily enough

I agree that children should be exposed to social situations at the earliest age possible/reasonable. How else will they learn the correct way to behave? Having said that it is important that parents realise that it is a 'learning' experience for children and therefore they ought to be being taught correct behaviour.

Of course others should be tolerant in these circumstances and accept slight annoyances. But no one should accept children and other non socialised persons running riot. There is huge difference between a child causing a disturbance and being chastised by a parent for it and a child clambering around beneath your seat growling like a dog, be it a plane, cinema or restaurant.

As for crying babies, they are a fact of life. On a journey, or in a cafe there is not a lot a parent can do if the standard soothing doesn't work. However, in return for my tolerance of this disturbance in acceptable situations I do feel that responsible parents shouldd accept that there are certain situations that they must forgo or leave the children behind unless they are reasonably sure that their children will not spoil the experience for others.

No one can ever convince me that a mother holding a six month old child at an orchestral concert is in full possession of her faculties.

Rant done. Oooh I feel better.

"I became far more understanding and tolerant when I became a grandfather.

Seems to have coincided with me posting here less and less, funnily enough"

That's the importance of birth control, guys and girls. SWL's kid forgets to take precautions, and suddenly h2g2 becomes slightly more boring.

"I take my children to the cinema to see films aimed at children. If you are an adult watching such a film, you have to accept that it is not going to be deathly still in the auditorium." [Sprout]

I accept and welcome it.

Children running around loose in a supermarket are a no-win situation. They could hurt themselves [which. in fact, sometimes does happen], or they could knock over some frail elderly shopper, or I could accidentally bump into them, with unknown consequences. When there's a crying baby or tot ahead of me in line, I try to put myself in the child's frame of mind. The child doesn't want to be there any more than I do. There's nothing either of us can do about it.

One option when trapped in a situation with a howling infant would be to empathise with their pain and distress and start howling too. I have tried it and it is not only wonderfully cathartic (that's my word of the NaJoPoMo by the way, somehow I must shoehorn it into one of them)but it has a surprising effect on parents who usually remember that they really ought to be somewhere else.

Yep, pebblederook, that has worked, several times - and once, I then got a grin.

Good idea! It works with howling/barking dogs too.
Jut as soon as you join in with the howling or the sobbing
or the whining there is a surprised silence from the offender
who will stare at you dumbfounded and gobsmacked.

Misery may love company but it hates being mocked or having
its bluff called. Nothing shuts up a howling kid like an adult
who outhowls them. I learned this from dogs. It works wonders
on kids age one to eleven.


~jwf~