h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm surprised the Civil Liberties people haven't
raised a ruckus about proposed 'lists' that are
intended to track the mentally and emotionally
disturbed. Or the demand that doctors be obliged
to report any patient they deem as unstable and
unsuitable to trust with the bearing of arms.

The next logical step would be to force them to wear
armbands or have some sort of tattoo or have a chip
installed that makes them conspicuous and identifiable.

Then when necessary they could be rounded up, given
uniforms and sent off as willing cannon fodder in the
Great Insect Wars to come.


~jwf~

As to allowing doctors to ask about guns in a patients home; I see no problem with this at all. The patient isn't required to tell the doctor, but preventing doctors from even asking with the threat of sanctions as we have now is asinine. If a doctor has reason to believe a patient may be a danger to himself or others, why should he be legally prevented from asking?

"I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords."

I don't think a doctor should be restrained from asking, but I don't see patronizing a doctor who is trying to get information like that. He, or more likely she, as I prefer female medical providers, would lose my business.

That being said, I can't really hide the fact that we have guns in the home. When I take my shirt off, they'll see generally notice that I have a gun, extra ammo, handcuffs, and badge.

I would find them asking my daughter about the guns in the house to be a huge invasion of my privacy.

Fair enough, but currently their are penalties for even asking. If you're a doctor and you have a possibly suicidal patient, or perhaps you're thinking of prescribing an antidepressant that is known to occasionally cause suicidal thoughts, it would be wise to ask. That doesn't mean the doctor is going to send jack booted thugs to take the gun, but maybe he'll suggest to the patient, or the patient's spouse that maybe the gun should be removed from the home for a few weeks.

It's only sensible.

I'm baffled that there's any legal limitation on what a doctor can ask a patient. I'm going to assume what you tell your doctor is confidential and doesn't get bandied about. Frankly, if this isn't the case, you should definitely be going to another doctor. So, confidentiality must be your base assumption.

Given that, you HAVE to trust your doctor to make a professional judgement. If, in their professional judgement, they require a particular piece of information to make an informed diagnosis or prescribing decision, what on EARTH makes it anyone else's business? And what kind of self-destructive masochist would lie to their *doctor* when asked something about their lifestyle?

It's a massive invasion of privacy to ask most of the things doctors ask you, isn't it? Isn't that why the doctor/patient relationship is confidential in the first place? At various times I've been asked if I smoke, how much I drink, what sort of food I eat and how much, whether I've ever had sex with a prostitute or another man or a person from Africa. I've been asked about how firm or loose my excrement is. In the context of questions like that, it seems very odd to object to being asked about whether you've a gun in the house. I can't imagine why you'd lie about such answers to a person who's job it is to fix what's wrong with you. If you answer is that on some level you don't trust them, reflect for a moment on the fact that this person is likely, at some stage, to stick a needle into your flesh and either inject or withdraw some fluid. I suggest that before you let someone do that, you have to put more trust in them than in almost any other individual you ever meet, your mother, father and life-partner included.

If they feel they need to know whether you've easy access to firearms before they diagnose or prescribe, what makes you think you're qualified to deny them that information? If you were qualified to make that decision, you wouldn't need to go to a doctor in the first place, because you'd be a doctor.

All of that said, lying about your symptoms and lifestyle to a doctor who is trying to treat you is one of the few stupid things one can do that is almost guaranteed to hurt nobody but yourself. (... unless you lie about owning guns, and making a risk assessment with incomplete data they prescribe an antidepressant that has unpleasant side effects, and with your screwed up brain chemistry you shoot some other people, maybe your family, before you shoot yourself... whereas if your doc had the full picture, they'd maybe choose to prescribe something less effective, or with other less pleasant but also less dangerous side-effects).

At the end of the day, if you don't trust your doctor, you're really in trouble...

What I find curious is that a doctor can't ask if you have guns but I can find out exactly what pills (if any) President Obama is taking through a Freedom of Information request.

I'm not sure how far the constitutional right to privacy extends but surely if you've made a doctors appointment, you're voluntarily giving up that right?

You can find out what pills Obama is taking? Really? That seems very odd

And we're in the posts - apparently we're only interesting and "heated" - i guess we get points for calming down

Apparently there is a lot of confusion about doctors and guns and I wasn't helping clear the matter as I was confused as well. The prohibition of doctors asking about guns was merely a state law in Florida pushed by Republican Governor Rick Scott, however it was declared unconstitutional in 2011.

There was a lot of other misinformation that stated part of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) REQUIRED doctors to ask about guns and report them to Homeland Security.
Hence, one of Obama's 23 executive actions this week was to affirm that this was not the case.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp

What does my doctor need to know about my guns for unless there's some reason to think that I might be suicidal or homicidal? More importantly, why would a doctor need to ask a child about guns in the home? Where should the questioning stop? Perhaps docotors should inquire about your finances. Stress related to money can probably be tied to some sortmental issues that might impact health. Are their health benefits to prayer? Maybe they should ask about that.

It seems to me that the American Academy of Pediatrics is trying to push its opinion on guns on families through the children it treats.

I'm not against gun safety education. My agency sends deputies into schools, both private and public, to teach kids about a variety of safety issues inlcuding guns.

Education is fine; interrogation is intrusive.

>>Perhaps docotors should inquire about your finances. Stress related to money can probably be tied to some sortmental issues that might impact health. Are their health benefits to prayer? Maybe they should ask about that.<<


Doctors (in the UK at least) do ask that: I had a doctors appointment yesterday and he asked me about my finances. For someone complaining of stress/depression, it's one of their first questions. I was also asked whether I had access to pills etc that might conceivably be used in a suicide attempt.

> You can find out what pills Obama is taking? Really? That seems very odd

I don't think we have any actual right to know because that's privleged, but I think there's a tradition of the White House sharing that information.

"interrogation is intrusive"

Doctors have, at various times, asked me whether I've recently banged a hooker, screwed a dude or injected heroin. How "intrusive" is that?

They're supposed to ask questions like that because they're relevant to the choices they will make about what treatment to recommend. You are of course at liberty to lie, but what possible benefit do you hope to gain from doing so?

We're getting well off topic and discussing a non issue. I apologize for that as the doctor issue was quite muddled and I inadvertently contributed to the confusion.



What would be more germane is discussing the 23 Executive Orders Obama announced yesterday.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rule making to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

None of these would take anyone's guns away, or limit the types of guns one could purchase. That will be left to congress in regards to "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines.


I'm particularly pleased with no. 14 that addresses the stifling of research for the last 17 years by the NRA and its hired congress critters and senators. They've effectively blocked research on gun violence issues. If ignorance is in your best interest, your stance should be questioned.

I would agree, though a couple will form slightly more bureaucracy, it is not unnecessary bureaucracy being formed - I too like the points, and especially No. 14

Sadly, I know there are many folks, especially here in Texas that will object to every bit of this and call it tyrannical. They've already begun doing so.

Okay, now that's nutty. That list constitutes the man doing his job. Those are good ideas.

>Sadly, I know there are many folks, especially here in Texas that will object to every bit of this and call it tyrannical. They've already begun doing so.

There was an impression out there that if he couldn't get his way with the bans through legislation that he would use executive orders to do it. The administration didn't say much about what they'd put in the executive orders until this weekend, so that speculation filled the vaccuum, and a bunch of people were being really paranoid.

Now that the orders are out, I think the furor over the executive orders will calm down.

You'd think so, but no. It doesn't matter what Obama says or actually does. They have an imaginary Obama in their heads that will kick their doors down, take their guns, take their bibles, kill their elderly parents, take all their money and give it to undeserving slackers, give their jobs to unwashed immigrants, take away their high fructose corn syrup and replace it with mind control drugs like fluoride, all while singing The Internationale.