h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

One of the reasons we bought our second hand car privately in the end was because the actual second hand car dealers wouldn't haggle. They got quite offended, in fact, as though it was an insult to suggest that the price might be negotiable. Much grumpy muttering about how the image of second hand car dealers is all wrong. And yet I was quite unaggressive about it, I promise.

Privately (though the AutoTrader website I think) we got about 700 pounds off the car, which was quite a significant chunk of the final price. So I would definitely recommend haggling then.

If you do go private, I recommend asking why the person is selling and what they used the car for. You want to know that the reason isn't 'because we've run the thing into the ground'. And I found it reassuring that the people we bought it off used it for basicaslly what we planned to.

Post sale, a friend of mine says that with second hand cars, top whack AA membership can be worth its weight in gold.

If you don't want the hassle though, CarGiant might be worth a look see. Their cars are only three years old and cost not less than 5K. But then my thinking was that if we came in a good couple of grand under that, then even if we spent something on a nice thorough servicing, it would have to be an awful lot before we weren't ahead.

We bought a five year old Pergot. It's a shame I still can't spell that. Love it. We've had to replace the tyres (worn - knew that when we saw it, cost a couple of hundred quid I think) and the battery (died this year, total cost £60 from an online retailer) and the bulbs go all the time, but it's got though two MOTs now, so it's all good. I also liked the Citrons. They have some nice small cars too. I discovered this by spending two full days garage hopping. I mention this because prior to this we hadn't bought or in fact owned a car before, and I hadn't driven one for about ten years, so I felt we just needed a bit of an immersion experience.

Anyway, sorry that went on a bit.

There is another option, which requires a bit of luck and a lot of courage...

Buy a wreck...

The last time I was in the market for a car, I had about £2,500 to spend... Looked around for ages, couldn't find anything I liked, was acutely aware of the fact that I'd never be really happy with any car I could actually afford (bit of a petrolhead - would always like something better)... So finally changed tactics...

Went to the garage next door to where I lived and paid about £600 for the cheapest thing they had on the forecourt... A 21 year old Renault 5... As it was from a garage then it had to have a new MOT on it - and they did a full service, but apart from that they were very clear there was no way they'd guarantee the thing...

You can only do this sort of thing if you are
(a) not afraid of the insides of a car (i.e.: - you know roughly how things work and how to hold a spanner)
and
(b) Not using the car for 'critical' purposes or planning on using it to cover thousands of miles per week


Admittedly, here in France the MOT is valid two years, which is a slight advantage, but when I bought it I'd already accepted that I'd drive it into the ground or for two years, which ever came first, and didn't expect to get a penny of my purchase price back...

Did indeed drive it for two years...
Total expenditure on it during that time
2 x new windscreen wipers - about £10
1 x new tyre (puncture) - about £45 (advantage of a small, low-performance car - you can happily buy the cheapest chinese tyre available).

The thing never failed to start in the morning and about the only 'regular' work I had to do was to re-tighten the windscreen wipers on their spindles as they'd just stop moving across the screen (2 seconds work with a spanner). I

And I didn't exactly go out of my way to choose the 'best' cheap car I could find - it was sheer chance that I got that particular one. In fact I bought it on first view after having driven it round the block twice.

Buy a wreck - but be prepared to get your hands dirty from time to time.

I must say I do like that approach; if you set your expectations (and budget) low enough, you'll never be disappointed!

Did it get through the MOT?

The French don't have an MoT.

B

We once bough a car for £25 knowing it needed a new cylinder head. We gave it a new part and it ran fine. I never got to find out how long it ran for as I gave it to my brother who lost his licence for drink driving only 4 weeks after passing his test and sold the car for £800.

We went against all the warnings and bought our second hand car from Ebay. Its a wee Smart Car, and we both love it. Its our first owned car for 9 years, as we were using the Mobility Scheme up until then, and the insurance, maintenance, tax ext are all included with the contract.

The road tax (£30 a year) is still paid for us, and its costing us £220 a year to insure, and with its 60-65 Mpg, its really cheap to run.

Yes, its only got two seats, but that is just ideal for us, as we hardly used the back seats on the other three cars we had, so no loss there.

All in all, its a great second hand car, and though Emails and phone calls to the previous owner, who we got to know very well, the fact we bought it on Ebay was almost forgotten.


Smudger.

End with a song:

Ebay - Wierd Al Yankovic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ

I've long pondered when it is most economic to replace your car. Is it better to hang on to a car longer, or replace it more quickly? These days, there are more incentives to replace an older car, since modern cars are more efficient and require lower rates of tax due to lower emissions. Also, at a certain point, the costs to repair a car will outweigh the value of keeping it. Conversely, the whole business of swapping cars can be costly, either in time, or just in terms of cash.

I'm sure I saw evidence that by far the most environmentally friendly option is to keep your old car running as long as possible because most of the carbon footprint is taken up in the original manufacturing process.

Have decided the cure to the agony of choice is to just make a selection and run with it.

So took the most seemingly attractive candidate cars from autotrader and began comparing them.

Just now rung around, see if they are available to be viewed.

One chap told me the alternator on the battery needs replacing and he's going to do it. Also he reduced the price. Bonus - My question is, as glad as I am on the honesty, should I draw any other conclusions about the maintenance? i.e if the alternator is failing what does this tell me about the condition of the vehicle? Anything?

Next question:

How would your rank the importance of weighing these factors in terms of future cost:


Mileage
Miles-to-the gallon
Insurance bracket
Tax Bracket

The cars I've looked at all come in at different points on these, some are better in one area over another.

Would say, a low rating in insurance cost, win out over a better MPG? or is the overall mileage to date still the best indicator for confidence in performance - eg, what if I had a car with low insurance, and tax, decent mpg but has done on average 14,000 miles per year - is that good or bad?

The insurance and tax brackets are actually fairly negligible factors compared to your petrol and repair costs. Even a good car will cost £300 to put through a yearly MoT and service, and if you do 5000 miles per year, then that's somewhere in the region of £1,000 just on petrol. In light of that, quibbling over whether to pay £110 or £135 in tax is fairly daft. And, frankly, I think most insurance companies are happy to pluck random numbers out the air no matter what you drive.

Mileage WILL be the best indicator of how reliable your car is and how likely it is to break down. As for fuel economy, it depends on how much you drive. I have a 50-mile round trip to work every day, so economy is always a priority for me. With the market heavily geared towards low consumption cars at the minute, though, you'll be short of options.

B

24 mile round trip per week, which my back of an envelope calculation means a little over 6000 miles a year.

"Mileage will be the best indicator"

Okay so take the actual example.

2004 Ford Fiesta, 112,000 miles / 8 - and I get 14,000 per year.

Compare that to another car on my list.

2002 Ford Fiesta , 79,986


The price on both cars is practically identical, same on tax, the insurance band on the 2nd car is a nudge higher.

So by your metric, the 2nd car is the better investment, simply becuase it's done less miles - correct?

I find them both a tad high, mileage-wise, but I suppose you have a budget. Can't you find anything around the 50,000-mile mark?

B

Budget £2000.

Watch out for small cars that may have been "blinged up" by a young driver. It may have a low mileage but it could well have had the arse torn out of it on the short run to the supermarket car park to hang out with his mates and practice being Jensen Button.

I just handed back my company car - 2 1/2 years old, 124000 miles and running like a dream. Regularly serviced and I would have had no problem buying it if I'd had to. High Mileage isn't *necessarily* a bad thing - consider that the likes of Kia and Hyundai are giving 5-7 year unlimited mileage warranties.

>>High Mileage isn't *necessarily* a bad thing

It's true, motorway miles hurt a car far less than town ones. A car that does 60,000 over 3 years should be much better than one which does 60,000 over 10 years.

Don't overlook the timing belt issue.
On the high mileage 2004, it ought to have been changed.
On the lower mileage 2002. it will need changing soon.
Timing belts are crucial. They control the coordination
of many moving parts and when they fail these parts will
collide and crush each other catastrophically.

Good to see you favouring the Ford products you are more
familiar with. Presumably parts and service will be cheaper
than something like a BMW, but I have to say I bought a used
1996 318.ti in 2001 and sold it last week after 11 years and a
hundred thousand kilometers (including some motorsport events)
for about a third of what I had originally paid. It was incredibly
reliable (and a lot of fun) even if some items like a broken
ignition-key switch cost $750 and loss of use for six weeks
while parts were sourced from Germany. (I coulda/shoulda/woulda
put in a simple on/off switch and an aftermarket starter-button
about for $50 if I had known.)


~jwf~

I was just about to post on the timing belt (cambelt) issue.

I bought my last car with 60,000 mile on the clock and then discovered I would need to change the timing belt very soon after I bought it. Ouch £££££££££££

This is the most expensive service the car will have. Buy it *after* or a long time *before* it needs a timing belt change.
And if it is after make sure it has been done. Make *very* sure.

(Timing belts usually need replacing between 60,000-72,000 miles and then double that)