h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Prescribing a placebo to someone isn't something that most doctors would admit to doing. It's more acceptable to say that you believe homopathy to be effective than that you lie to your patients to prescribe a placebo.

From my attempts to blog, which I gave up to save h2g2..

http://www.refertomedics.co.uk/?p=44

Is telling someone to drink herbal tea "prescribing placebo"? (sincere question, in case you can't tell)

My doctor at uni told me to drink honey and lemon, but he was quite upfront that it would make me feel better only because it was warm and tasted nice, not because there was any drug-style medical effect going on, and that if and when my cold cleared up it would be because it was going to anyway, and all the stuff I would do in the meantime would be mitigating the symptoms, not hastening the cure. I appreciated the honesty, I must say.

I always thought the lemon was for C vitamines, but they probably get damaged in hot water. Although they also sell C vitamines as powder or omething to drink in hot water.

My understanding is that Austrian (and German and French) doctors genuinely *do* think that herbs are beneficial. Also...spa holidays.

UK Midwives also suggest various herbs - raspberry leaf tea to avoid a medically induced labour (Doctors advise women not to drink it earlier because it's a powerful abortifacient) and...I can't remember what it is...to promote lactation.

None of these have gone through the the approval process as far as I know. But they are Old Wives' Tales that have long been believed to work. It's unlikely that anyone will get any money to test them so we'll never know their efficacy for sure. Meantime - are we daft to go on assuming that they work?

It depends on how much people are charging for the remedies, or the advice to take them...

I guess the question boils down to... where's the harm?

>>My doctor at uni told me to drink honey and lemon, but he was quite upfront that it would make me feel better only because it was warm and tasted nice,

Whereas honey, lemon and lots of fresh ginger triggers a physiological reaction that actually makes you feel better for a wile.

A good, hot, curry also does the same...as well as being one of the 'Three Hots' used to bring on late labour.

I thought that as well, but the last time looked at the MRCs research criteria they said that they encouraged applications for people who wanted to research complementary therapies, and would even provide extra assistant for them so they could design better studies. Also the US government funds trials into these sorts of therapies. We have a research fellow doing stage 2 studies in green tea.

Tav:

>>I always thought the lemon was for C vitamines, but they probably get damaged in hot water.

Ah. Now. 'Vitamin C and the Common Cold'. The Nobel-winning chemist Linus Pauling wrote a book of that name. He believed that colds (and cancer) could be cured by massive daily doses of vitamin C. And I mean *massive*. Not a slice of lemon in a cup of water or a glass of OJ. He was wrong. However, the vitamin C connection has stuck in the public consciousness.

Actually....there is far more vitamin C in potatoes (unpeeled) and leafy vegetables than in citrus fruits. And parsley is especially good. I always experience a placebo effect when I eat lots of parsley because I know it must be doing me good. Plus - it tastes lovely.

@Z:

Could you test whether parsley makes people happier, then?

Teh Cochrane systematic review collaboration also reviews herbal and natural treatments, such as Vit C for the cold.

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD000980/vitamin-c-for-preventing-and-treating-the-common-cold

(not enough evidence, but not effective.)

Could you test whether parsley makes people happier?

I could design such an experiment and persuade some medical students to carry it out for free. But why?

Pure science!

Like space telescopes and shit.

There's an Ignobel with your name on it.

Are C vitamines actually good for anything?

They are an essential part of the diet as they prevent scurvey.

Good, I am relieved.

...distant memories from anatomy and physiology lectures...

Cats synthesise vitamin C by excreting a precursor into their fur and licking it off. That's why they spend so much time grooming.

>> I guess the question boils down to... where's the harm?

Ah, funny you should ask that, Hoo, the Dr and Mrs Zen double act will be talking at Embra Skeptics on just that subject in July. (Or is it June?) I'd put in a link but I've been too busy hootooing to update the Embra Skeptics website.

>> Cats synthesise vitamin C by excreting a precursor into their fur and licking it off. That's why they spend so much time grooming.

How's that for an auto-immune system?

Y'know, Mrs. Zen, it's almost as if I already knew that and only said it in order to give you a chance to do that shout out...