h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Most of that list makes sense, Mrs. Z, inasmuch as I can see how someone might believe they might be applicable to migraines... but...

Feng shui? For migraines?

How did you become convinced (even temporarily, even theoretically) that you could cure headaches by tidying up?

Oh, and while I'm showing just how open my mind actually is, here is a list of things I've tried but not for migraines:

chanting
counselling
energy magnets
hopi ear candles
nicotine
prayer

>> Feng shui? For migraines?

>> How did you become convinced (even temporarily, even theoretically) that you could cure headaches by tidying up

But if you sleep in a negative energy space....?

Turmeric, ginger and cinnamon are spices, not herbs.

B

You left out NLP...

"Tests have shown that even when people know they are only taking a placebo, they still get the placebo effect. So who knows what might happen."

I'm only aware of one study that showed this (not saying there aren't others, but haven't read them) which is the IBS Harvard (et al) one here:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0015591

Those participants who reported an effect even with knowledge of the treatment being a placebo:
- had been seen (regularly) by a doctor and diagnosed with a specific ailment,
- Were seen in a medical/academic environment by medical researchers ,
- had been informed that they are taking a placebo
- informed that "placebo pills, something like sugar pills, have been shown in rigorous clinical testing to produce significant mind-body self-healing processes."

As this study itself says, it may well be that the participants thought they were getting an active treatment, albeit not an actual drugs or conventional medical one. In other words, they were not anticipating that they were actually getting nothing, rather something was being done to them. Which is kinda interesting, that even when you tell people they ain't getting a treatment, they may still assume that they are! As they say:
"Patients in our study accepted that they were receiving an active treatment, albeit not a pharmacological one, whereas patients in double-blind trials understand that they have only a 50% chance of receiving active treatment."

It is perhaps worth noting in this study that the ad for participants is worded as "a novel mind-body management study of IBS" which seems more likely to appeal to the more suggestible that hard rationalist type of person.

So: yes, there can be an effect even when placebos are given 'eyes-open'. But the effect, it seems, is all about how the patient reads the situation not about what it actually is. From this it seems unlikely that self administered placebo by someone who is aware of the status as placebo is not going to have any effect.

>> It has been said that Alzheimer's is rare in India because the general population eats so much turmeric.

Or because the life expectancy in India is less than 60?

Just wonderin'.

ok...

if its a placebo effect that cured my migraines, thats fine - they are cured - however - I don't really believe in homeopathy, I went along with it as I was desperatly trying to cope with two toddlers, self-employmen, and bad heads!

I thought when given a placebo, you weren't aware that there was nothing in it to help. I know homeopathy has nothing of any significance in any dose...I did the course with tongue firmly in cheek

I still got better!

You left out NLP...

Damn, I did. It was in the spreadsheet.

Then there's the facial treatments, such as the ones that supposedly zap you with a current between two balls of steel and revitalise ...

....

forget it ... I'm losing the will to live.

B

One day someone will give a rational explantion of *placebo*

That word gets banded around as if everyone knows what it is. I don't.

.....AND.....

it cured my best friends toddler of her chidhood excema (spelling)....a baby who had no idea what it was!!

I still think its a bit bonkers - but it works....

There's a number of ways that homopathy might appear to be effective for migraines despite the fact it hasn't got any active substance in it. And the placebo effect is only one of them.

Firstly: it might have got better anyway.

Migraines are the sort of disorder that comes and goes and gets better at certain stages of life. Also as it comes and goes there are times when migraines are worse and times when they are better. It has peaks and troughs. As you probably went to a homeopath when the migraines were worse it isn't surprising that the migraines took a turn for the better soon afterwards. This is called regression to the mean.

Secondly: stopping taking conventional medication may have made it better. If you take too many painkillers for headaches they can actually cause medication overuse headache. So if

Thirdly: they might actually not have got better but just seem better as you feel they are treated.

In 2003 I had a discussion with Ben on h2g2, who told me that homeopathy had cured her migraines. In 2004 we started dating, and it became apparent that she actually did get quite a lot of migraines. They certainly weren't cured. But she felt that they were better than they were before she got treatment.

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please...

...write the h2g2 edited entry on Hopi ear candles

In terms of treatment for a baby: it could be a case of regression to the mean. Eczema gets better and worse, and you try and get treatment when it is bad, not when it is good.

Zed what is the placebo effect?

For you Icy, anything.

Can I write the one on Hoopy Ear Candles first though. Or the one on Loopy Ear Canals?

B

Effers : I'm in the process of writing a long post about the placebo effect..

RE: Post 42

Nicotine works wonders for stress. Both as a cause of and solution to.

Of course there's a crossover between herbs* and medicine. Digitalis. Ergotamine. Atropine. Aspirin. Mould. However, to be on the safe side you're best:

a) Only taking herbs that actually work. Why stay ill when you could have tried something else?

b) Only take herbs that don't damage you too much (you wouldn't want to take too much digitalis)

The process of taking a herb and processing and testing it to ensure that it meets the above criteria is a subset of pharmacology.






* here I'm using it as a generic term for 'shit that grows'.