h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have given up on books, counselling, etc. etc. and am now consdering the shot-gun. Taking into account the mitigating circumstances, I would probably be out of prison sooner than I would get a divorce....

Don't joke about it, Slug. We have one in the house; when I left 6 weeks ago I rang a friend to ask him to look after it.... and his wife gave him a hard time because she wondered why I rang.

Even though I shouldn't be facetious given the serious stuff going on here, may I suggest you get all the books together, Slug, and strategically pile them at the top of the stairs. Then, next time you chase him out of the bedroom/bathroom or wherever, he will slip and accidentally fall downstairs. This will save you wasting further sums on counsellors, lawyers etc, plus you will have no need to waste your life in jail, plus you can get loads of sympathy etc., plus you need spend no more time wondering what, if anything, is going on in the male brain, plus you get to keep all the money/wipe out the debts.

To me reckoning, I think Trillian's Child has hit the nail square on the head - in a very important respect.

Everyone is different, and you have to look at each person individually. You can read all the books you want from now until Hell freezes over and still not find a single way to understand someone. Some people are, unfortunately, very closed minded. This is non gender specific, too. I know as many closed minded women as men.

Personally, Slug, I think you need to talk. To him, preferably. But if not, then you need to find a good, close friend who will be a good listener, and not give you any garbage-suggestions. Telling someone your problems always helps a little, even if it doesn't rectify the situation, because sharing your problems relieves a bit of your load. If your friend can give you good ideas - great. If not, then at least you've gotten it off your chest. It would be best if you and he could sit down and have a nice long chat about your feelings, but speaking as a guy (one who does do that with his girlfriend, mind you), I know that it's not always easy, and there are a significantly higher number of men (than women) who don't know how to do that. He may be unresponsive to talking. He may also feel that there's no reason to talk. The parents of a friend of mine couldn't understand me when I made a comment that two people who disagree should talk. They (the parents) see things as black and white - I'm right, you're wrong, no two ways about it. Whereas the truth is rarely like that. Usually it's a beautiful shade of grey, hovering somewhere in between.

You're going to get tired of hearing me say this, but that's why I recommend reading up about social psychology. It gives you a good insight into this kind of thing. And it doesn't give you categories to place people into, like personality psychology does, but ti shows you how to look at things from a social perspective. And after you read it, you might want to try getting him to read it, too. One of the things my text stresses is that big social blunders, like the Fundamental Attribution Error (FAE), can be removed completely, just by teaching people that it exists.

The FAE is a cute little theory which states (in a nutshell) that people tend to attribute causality of a person's actions to their own internal disposition, rather than to the social environment. Example - you go to a restaurant, and the waitress stands impatiently beside you as you try to think of what you want for dessert. FInally she snaps "Hurry up, will you? I don't have all day!" What is the first thing that goes through your mind? Chances are, you think something very uncomplimentary, and possibly even obscene. But what if I tell you that she's a single mother of three whose youngest child is home sick, her car broke down on the way to work and she didn't have enough fare for the public transit, and when she got to work, she found that her co-waitress was drunk and not working, and the cook was yelling at her for being too slow? Your perception of her changes. You now think of her not as a witch (with a capital B) but as a normal human being under a lot of stress.

That kind of thing goes on all the time. The way to combat it is to teach people to view situations - and to not make dispositional inferences before considering all options. You could easily have avoided thinking badly about her before you knew all that happened to her, had you simply though to yourself, "Well, maybe something happened to her today - I don't know what, but maybe it was something terrible". So perhaps he needs to read this more than you.

Either way, I hope things take a turn for the better. And be happy - you seem to have a lot of supporters here!

-Marduk

I think that there is no use to talk about your feelings to men - reason is the same, they want to do smth, to say smth, to give some good suggestions. Woman usually needs just listening and sympathy.
One great author I have read is Erich Fromm, but I can't remember the title of his book in English, smth about the art of love. It might teach a lot.

smth?

Fromm was a wise man.

I think you have happened upon a truth there Marduk. I have often observed that when I criticise others, the fault I am picking up is one I am guilty of, and angry (with myself) about. Hence my passing comment about S's mother's insecurities. Thus, when criticised, I react, partially, by wondering whats up with the critic. I didn't know it was defined and written of.

And, despite previous levity, there is no reason not to talk to men. The species, like women, contains both good and bad, and a wise and honest one (yes they do exist) may help, should you be able to find one.

I'll talk to anyone, me. Sure my girlfriends listen more, and I listen more to them. But I have had some very important conversations with men, important for me and important for them too, I guess. And fun ones.

A woman as I am I prefer to talk to men. And often I get disappointed, too. It seems to me that they are hurt if they are used as garbage tins or smth(something) like this. They want to do anything to make things better and even if they are wise enough not to do it they are troubled with it.
Sorry for my English, I would like to write more and more, but I have my limits.

Hafnifnat: I think you are right. I have been used as a garbage disposal area many times, and I appreciate those who have that kind of faith in me as a friend. However, I allways feel like a failed problemsolver if I can't come up with a way of making the girl/woman (I am in that part of my life [just turned 20], where there is no way of discerning the girls from the women....) feel better. Perhaps that is why I am more and more seldom turned into a garbage bin... I wish I could change that.

And do go on, faulty english is abound in the h2g2. I don't mind and I guess the nativly englishspeaking part of the community can manage as well...

The best you can do is to to make talking easier to her. Ask questions and remember that women usually solve their problems while they are talking. Listening is the best you can do. And also this is the reason why women answer to men's complaints saying Oh, really? Just to give the opportunity to talk. We don't feel to be expected to give the answers as men do.
Alltogether it still seems to me a great waste of time and human resource. Women just have the same idea how to solve a problem. That does not make them better or worse than men.

I know there are a lot of linguists here on h2g2, but I can only speak one language, so I really admire those of you can manage in more than one. Particlularly writing in a second language - very difficult.

Simple rule of thumb
Women talk because the act of talking makes them feel better
Men talk to provide or receive information

The best way to help a woman is to listen to her, offer her examples of the same thing from your own experience, but only give advice or solutions if she asks for them. As soon as she feels better she will go and do the right thing anyway - she does not need you to tell her what it is. (That said, I have been asking specific people for specific advice recently - we do sometimes want someone to suggest a solution). Just listenting to her will make her feel better. Sometimes if I am talking to a man, I actually tell him "All I need, is for you to say 'There there'".

Men rarely seem to want to share in the same way - and why should they? This is why the heart-to-hearts I have had with men have tended to take 20 minutes rather than 20 hours. If they want advice they will ask for it. Otherwise they will just mull stuff over in manly silence.

I still find a silent man I care for the most terrifying thing in the universe.

Right on Hatifnat

I've said it before men are just people and people are
not always what you see on the surface.My husband hides
behind humour but I KNOW that still waters run deep
and that he loves me and the children(he is still here).
It's just he was taught by his fathers example
(and the Royal Navy) not to whine about his problems but
to solve them.His mother also taught him not to lose his
temper which in one way was a good idea but somehow it was
translated into not showing ones feelings.Living with me
has changed all that as I often demand an answer
which is something I learned from MY father.He was
demonstrative by being physical(hugs and tickles)
and did have a terrible temper but I always knew
where I stood with him even if he never said those
three words of 'I love you'.There was no hiding of
feelings with my father it was my mother who did that.
She could have sulked for England if it was an Olympic
event.She was the one who never told me what was
on her mind and I had to go by guess work.I never got it
right either.

So I guess what I am saying is that people are more complex
than the idea that women show feelings,men don't sort of
theory.

Incognitas: I agree with you. I was talking about tendencies not strickt rules.
My husband thinks that he is vulnerable if he has a problem or pain (he might be, too) and so he is not solving the problem but just trying to be invulnerable. So he walks around like a cross-breed of hedgehog and stormy cloud hurting everybody. Telling that it's OK and he's fine.
Everybody gets what he's worth, eventually, he says.

Tendecies. I thnk that's the word here. Men _tend_ to hide their feelings more than women, while women _tend_ to show their feeling more than men. On the other hand, some women (the evol ones) _tend_ to show feeling they don't have....

Thanks to Hafnifnat and a girl named Ben for your advice. I'll try to be a better listener in the future....

Simulpost!

Well well, we do meet in the oddest places. Men, by and large, understand men. If a man shows his 'feelings' it is usually because he has a reason to do so. That reason is often purely selfish and to do with self-esteem rather than altruism. A rather jaundiced view I know, and I run the risk of being accused of judging others by my own low standards, but I try to avoid self-deception even if life is a role-playing game in which we manipulate others.

Percy von Wurzel! Now I never...

You are pointing at a rather dark side of humanity: Selfishness. I gotta ask you this though, can one (anyone, male or female) show one's feelings (spill one's guts) for reasons of altruism? This confuses me. I wold think the altruist, remained the strong part to help the one with an abundance of negative emotions, get over it. (Whatever "it" may be)

Uhm. There was supposed be an additional "u" somewhere in my last posting. For sport, I will let you find out where..