h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

More proavable is the statement:

'3DOTS SCREAMS WHEN HE HEARS MORRISEY SING.'

Just like Mitch Benn: I never went through a Smiths Phase.

KB - It was me with the cuddlies line. It was her choice of words, in response to my mocking her choice of lifestyle. It was, and still is, my view that eating generally involves something dying, there isn't a special case to be made for not eating something, because you see it in a field every day.

If you're wondering how that sits with the fact she's pretty much my most respected veggie friend, it's because she's never, in the many discussions we've had on the subject, tried to pull a 'moral high ground' line.

Just to throw in an experience, the guitarist in my band is a fanatic vegan as is his wife. They have dogs to whom they feed an appropriately meaty diet, they have two daughters who live on a mainly vegan diet but as babies/young children they are given milk, cheese etc. I have discussed their vegan lifestyle and for them it's simply a case that they dont like taking advantage of animals for our own uses when it's not necessary along with a little influence from him having a dairy intolerance (on the toilet for three days with stomach cramps and acid reflux after a pizza). Both are also realists, would eat meat if they had little or no other choice, and his particular weakness is cheese.

They choose to buy vegan footwear instead of leather, tend to avoid silk and dont eat honey either. I have to respect them as pretty broad spectrum and stable vegans with a healthy attitude. We live in the western world where we do have choices, their choice is to impact other living creatures as little as possible for their own pleasure and convenience. I respect that while I dont share it.

As for the killing of vermin, I find that a hard one and could start a whole new argument!

"tend to avoid silk and dont eat honey either"

Good on them! A lot of people claim to be 100% vegan but still wear silk and eat honey (or at least they do until I tell them what honey basically is )

I did consider going vegetarian and eventually vegan this year as part of a full-on healthy living thingy, but as I have no ethical objection to animal products or meat as long as they're properly sourced and preferrably local I figured I might as well keep some meat in my diet. I occasionally have days that I classify as vegetarian or vegan in terms of diet.

(also, tell your guitarist he loses at both metal and punk for not wearing leather. )

Bring it on Robyn Been a while since I had an intellectual bruising of of you Must be due one

HI

Oh it's only a small thing I suppose. It' just that vermin is used, in my experience, as an excuse for killing a certain species regardless of whether it is actually a pest at the time and place of execution.

Oh he has leather. Mostly wrapped around the handles of the various guerilla knives and other military and historical blades he keeps. He has a bren in his living room.

On the subject of leather:


A saddle-maker friend of mine once remarked 'No cow has ever been killed for its hide.'

If everyone in the world stopped using leather, not a single cow's life would be saved. There'd just be a whole lot more cow hides going to landfills.

Fair comment.

Yes, that's why I have no problem with leather, but wouldn't buy fur (except "vintage" fur, perhaps - I bought an ancient, moth-eaten fur stole at a flea market once to make an authentic lining for my scabbard.)

But, I can certainly respect a person's decision to not have leather because they don't want to have any part in the whole killing animals for food thing.

We all draw our own lines for our own reasons. I have trouble with people who claim moral superiority because of where they've chosen to draw their lines.

@Robyn

On the subject of honey.

Quite a favourite in our house. What would you tell a Vegan to discourage them?


In other matters I had a moment to reflect the other day.

We'd had pork shoulder for Sunday dinner. We had some left over and I had few slivers of it when I was feeling peckish the next day - and I thought of this conversation as I ascended the stairs snacking happily on a slab of chewy meat, just how much I was enjoying it.

I think my internal vegan gave up the job as hopeless years ago....

"" to make an authentic lining for my scabbard.""

were scabbards not lined with sheepskin??

the lanolin would lubricate and protect the blade

Why am I expecting some sort of rude comment about Welsh swords and skin?

because you have a dirty mind

Some might be sheepskin, but the fur version is just as good at keeping it lubricated. (Spraying it with WD40 once in a while helps. )

3in1

'3in1'


There you go with the jokes again.

no....that would be ky

clive,

regarding honey and what I would say to a vegan:

It depends on why they are a vegan. If they are vegan because they dont want to exploit any living creature for what it can provide then this would include honey and beeswax. It's a bit like stealing building materials from birds' nests. And the goodness from live eggs. It's an exploitation as much as taking milk from cows.

If they are vegan to avoid the breeding and slaughter of commonly exploited mammals (pigs, cattle, sheep etc) but they eat free-range eggs (natural by-product?) then they will probably be quite happy to use beeswax, honey etc. Like vegetarians they are all a bit different. Some vegans are vegetarians with added 'no dairy' while others dont want animal by-products (often because it leads to exploitation and interference by humans).

"If they are vegan ... but they eat free-range eggs"

Then they're not vegan. Granted some don't go to the extent of not using any animal products, but if they eat any animal produce (which includes honey, because it is a foodstuff that is produced by animals) they cannot legitimately call themselves vegan. It's like someone who eats chicken saying they're vegetarian.

Sorry, it's just that knowing a lot of vegans and vegetarians I tend to get just as caught up as they do in making sure people use the correct terms.