h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Do those have different kinds of lice?

My question to Stanley would be how we are supposed to know apes and other animals don´t have modesty. Even if they did, I doubt most animals would have the skills to make clothes.

look at this century old thing I just found:

'NO ALTOGETHER satisfactory theory of the origin of modesty has been advanced. The naive assumption that men were ashamed because they were naked, and clothed themselves to hide their nakedness, is not tenable in face of the large mass of evidence that many of the natural races are naked, and not ashamed of their nakedness; and a much stronger case can be made out for the contrary view, that clothing was first worn as a mode of attraction, and modesty then attached to the act of removing the clothing; but this view in turn does not explain an equally large number of cases of modesty among races which wear no clothing at all etc.'

http://www.brocku.ca/MeadProject/Thomas/Thomas_1899_c.html

this bit is perhaps relevent:

'A minimum expression of modesty, and one having an organic rather than a social basis, is seen in the coyness of the female among animals.'

so, in fact, we have a pretty strong suspicion that animals do experience something like modesty.

""""""""This seems to mean that clothing became important when agricultural societies developed, which in fact seems to fit to Stanley's theory that it all started when people had to leave paradise.""""""""""



Thanks for all the comments.

The BBC link about lice is interesting but admits it could be out by thousands of years.

The point about hunters using clothes to carry tools is also logical and valid, however according to evolutionists these hunters have been hunting using tools long before being clothed. Monkeys use tools today but havn't decided to make a tool bag which wraps around their private parts.

shoes were worn by a certain type of caveman with a certain skill and not for modesty

any ideas???

""""""""""shoes were worn by a certain type of caveman with a certain skill and not for modesty

any ideas???"""""""""""

Well the way Fred Flinstone drove his car, im not suprised!

well, shoes is an easy one, I guess. I don't think they did it for covering their ankles. Although you certainly can't compare them directly with us I can see quite a lot advantages that wearing shoes have compared to running barefoot through the forest, or on stones, or especially in the snow.
Why do you know that they wore shoes out of modesty?

flint knappers

they thought it was more important to

cover their feet and protect thier soles

rather than

cover their balls and protect their souls

Shoes are for practical reasons and have nothing to do with modesty. However in todays world there is a new fantasy which is known as 'shoe fetish'.

Maybe the shoes were more like the wide trousers of carpenters: protection when they were working.

I disagree about shoes and modesty and about shoe fetish being something invented in modern times. The first thing that comes to my mind are chinese women who cripple(d) their feet and wore very small shoes. That's more than mere fashion.

Oh no!

Not that's its of personal interest but when did the shoe fetish become a reality?

Oh yes. They started with it as babies, bandaging the feet so they can't grow and when they are adult women they can hardly walk, which is seen as a good thing. There are still people alife who have that.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NOXa1CXNsxg/RoqQ14xFOSI/AAAAAAAAAO0/EET4IfpkCZY/s400/binding.jpg


I only know that there were different shoe fashions in the middle ages already.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/4/48/Schnabelschuhe.jpg/180px-Schnabelschuhe.jpg
These shoes became longer and longer, as you see the look seems to be more important than whether you can walk in them.

Didn't Jesus launch a whole range of footwear with his name?

Pity he never made it to... um... Lutetia, isn't it?

before I go back to lurking, stan, care to respond to post 122?

The reason people wear clothing and cover up now adays is because over the years that has become what people do. For some reason nakedness has become frowned upon in every day life also is seen as dirty.

As for the not running bare foot in a forest suggestion -
A. In those days people did not mind due to growing up with it so it was natural and didn't effect people.
B. If you are not wearing any footware it becomes easier to stalk around to capture or kill animals or whatever enemy you are hunting.

The human body only has become so suseptable to the cold and heat etc over time because we have De-evolved from how resiliant we used to be by wearing clothing and living and stone homes with windows. So all we have done in this apparent "Evolving" is lose some of the strenths we used to have.

A lot of things we do now has changed. A lot of diseises and illneses we have now were not about in the distant past. Like now we brush our teeth on a daily basis, yet they managed to survive without it. We have a lot of health care to deal with the slightest of problems, that was never there in the past and they worked through it. The list goes on and on


Falx

You are right about walking barefoot, but concearning the teeth you also have to think of the food that became different over the ages. And people get much older now than they were then. People also cleaned their teeth with sticks... not as good as toothbrushes but ok. And it's not like nobody had any tooth problems. Even animals have tooth problems.

0_o

I'll go back to I think. There's onlyl so many times I'm willing to bang my head against a brick wall...

I like your tag, Robyn - "I got a good grip and I aint damn well letting go!" but then -
<< I'll go back to I think. There's onlyl so many times I'm willing to bang my head against a brick wall... >>


2. Barefoot. Have you noticed, in the house trying to go quietly, that socks are better than slippers - or bare feet?

>>
You are right about walking barefoot, but concearning the teeth you also have to think of the food that became different over the ages. And people get much older now than they were then. People also cleaned their teeth with sticks... not as good as toothbrushes but ok. And it's not like nobody had any tooth problems.
<<

True there were problems sometimes, but nothing like what we experience now. The research on cultures that don't have civilised lifestyles shows that strong healthy teeth is the norm over the life of a human. Tooth decay and other problems are associated with white flour and white sugar and white rice. Before those foods people didn't need toothbrushes.

I'm not sure about the longevity thing. We don't know how long people used to live.