h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

But to clarify - my basic point is this - I do know at least half a dozen people who *do* take cocaine.

Yet curiously, they would never dream of breaking any other laws (with the possible exception of the odd Road Traffic Violation). Yet for some reason selling drugs to each other (commercial supply, sentencing guideline minimum 4 years *on first conviction) has become socially acceptable in those circles.

They also cry and wring their hands about the tsunami victims and cruel farming practices yet never spare a thought for whos, hows and whys of cocaine production...

>> Anecdotal evidence has suggested for years that prolonged exposure to Mary-Jane can bring about schizophrenia and other mental problems <<

That's part of the problem, methinks. there hasn't been enough controlled studies to either prove or disprove this hypothesis. I could always cite the 90-year-olds "smoked all me life" types, but I wouldn't hold that up as evidence that smoking isn't harmful.

As I understand it, the Glasgow research showed people working as functioning addicts whilst being prescribed injectable heroin. This thus cuts out the criminal element. I think that the knowledge that not *all* heroin addicts are like those portrayed in Trainspotting (which I confess I've never seen, but I understand that they're not all fine upstanding members of the community, correct me if I'm wrong ) is fairly old news. Similarly, people seem to be able to function as adults when the drug of choice is cocaine (if it didn't, the film, television and advertising industries would fall apart! ).

More work needs to be done on this, but the central reaction "drugs are evil, must be banned" needs, at the least, re-examination.

RF

I think people need to take some responsibility for themselves, rather than let the governement tellthem what to do, unless their actions endanger others.

>> Anecdotal evidence has suggested for years that prolonged exposure to Mary-Jane can bring about schizophrenia and other mental problems <<

Not anecdotal. I quote, "On an individual level, cannabis use confers
an overall twofold increase in the relative risk
for later schizophrenia. At the population level,
elimination of cannabis use would reduce the
incidence of schizophrenia by approximately 8%,
assuming a causal relationship." Causal association between cannabis and
psychosis: examination of the evidence. Arseneault L, Cannon M, Witton J & Murray RM. (2004) British Journal of Psychiatry

It is no longer anecdotal, true. The point I was making that this 'proof' came as no great suprise to those who had half an eye on the rest of the world...

i must say that i see heroin and cocaine as totally not done and really really evil. Even though it should be given to (already) addicts, everything should be done to prevent new users!

sorry, Blues Shark, over-reacting as usual, us Guardian readers are so sensitive you know

>> i must say that i see heroin and cocaine as totally not done and really really evil. <<

Why?

RF

>> ..cannabis use confers an overall twofold increase in the relative risk for later schizophrenia. <<

*ahem*
Rather than condemn marijuana as a cause of schizophrenia it should be recognised as a way to recognise and diagnose the condition early. Cannabis is a psychic liberator known to mankind for thousands of years. It is probably the same burning bush that Moses talked to.

It may even be the forbidden 'tree of knowledge' that Eve sparked up in the Garden. It frees the soul. It lubricates the mind. It mellows the mood and it relaxes the body. It is at odds with the Protestant work ethic and corporate goals but it is a natural therapy, a way of communing with the Cosmos beyond the limiting arrogance of human conceits and devices.

Those who smoke and later supposedly 'suffer' from schizophrenia are missing the point entirely. They were already f***ed up. Cannabis merely releases them from the tension of suppression. Like lancing a boil, marijuana exorcises demons, it does not create them.

I do speak from painful experience.
Cannabis released my demons at a tender age resulting in anti-social behaviours that saw me hospitalised twice in the mid 60s. The official diagnosis of 'toxic psychosis' was just not accurate or acceptable. You can't blame the laxative for the unpleasant quality of resulting fecal aromas.

Cannabis does not 'cause' schizophrenia but it most certainly will allow an underlying condition to surface, to be liberated. In young adults it triggers the 'amok' time that is known and embraced by less repressive cultures where 'nose to the grindstone' and 'shoulder to the wheel' are not seen as necessarily good ideas. Yes, everybody must get stoned. And the sooner the better I say.

Clinical psychologists are guilty of failing to recognise a classic chicken and egg conundrum. They simply jump to the popular assumption that all unsanctioned use of drugs will cause mental and social problems. It is true that for reasons of physical addiction many drugs will cause social and emotional stresses and terrors, but marijuana is not addictive. It produces a relaxed condition which is viewed as 'lethargy' or 'apathy' by A-type personalities, work-ethic obsessives and global economists, but that is a socio-political argument not a medical one. And not a valid one in the real world.

Y'see, from my point of view I was already crazy, forced to live in a hectic world of material consumption amid the cold indifference of a mechanical and technological gearset. My assorted emotional problems were a time-bomb waiting to explode. Thank the goddesses that my boil got lanced. Cannabis released me and I am grateful.

Yes, it took years for me to self 'analyse' all my mental and emotional problems. The doctors were so anally retentive they couldn't see the forest for the woodpile and the lumber mill. My problems were largely the result of being born 200 years too late, but with the continued use of cannabis I was finally able to discover my real self. I shed my ego, my superego, half of my id, all of my social 'obligations' and most of my fear of living below the poverty line in a souless technocracy. I have wandered, free as a bird, drifting on the wind.

Eventually, all my emotional conflicts resolved themselves and in spite of being labelled a social outcast I have continued to be a happy and productive daily user for forty years. It took Moses forty years to find the promised land too. While the Budha sat under the tree for just 42 days.

~jwf~

...and in conclusion, may I suggest that in the question of marijuana we should not be asking 'should it be legal' but rather how did it ever become illegal.

How did we get to such a state that the men who make and enforce our laws cannot tell the difference between god's 7th day cannabis and the narcotics of 24/satan?

~jwf~

Posted 2 Days Ago by Reddyfreddy
>> i must say that i see heroin and cocaine as totally not done and really really evil. <<

Why?

RF

Well, because of the fact that both are (on average) highly addictive. that both are seriously bad for your body, worse than cannabis. Y'see, drugs are bad hmmkay...and these are worse!

>>Rather than condemn marijuana...Budha sat under the tree for just 42 days.<<

Very poetic, but also very unconvincing. I'm inclined to go with the Journal of Psychiatry on this one.

>> Well, because of the fact that both are (on average) highly addictive. that both are seriously bad for your body, worse than cannabis. Y'see, drugs are bad hmmkay...and these are worse! <<

Well, this is in fact exactly the kind of knee-jerk reaction I was expecting. Alcohol is addictive. Nicotine is addictive. Both are "bad" for you.

Drugs are not inherently bad, or evil, of themselves. Nor are the effects - heroin was invented as a painkiller, and is used medicinally for that purpose today - bad. Why do people feel the need to demonise them?

RF

Agree with RF, what is staring everyone in the face, but nobody, particularly our self obsessed politicians, is that we control the dangerous bits of life, alchohol, tobacco, driving, air travel; but the one area that would make a massive contribution to reducing crime i.e. mugging, prostitution, gun crime and robbery is legalising Class A drugs. Legalise, educate, control. That would drop the floor out of the price, globally. Hence the profit motive would move from criminals to pharmecuticals and distributors. Boots? Safeway?

Hmmm.

Time for my opinion.

Cannabis should be legal. It should never have been made illegal. I agree with JWF that cannabis is just likely to bring mental problems to the fore, rather than being the cause.

The statistics either show that people are more likely to get mental problems through cannabis,
or
That people who are likely to develope mental problems are also more likely to smoke cannabis.

I believe the latter is true.
But the Im also a regular cannabis smoker and former grower.

My position on harder drugs is harder for me to define.
I am a regular class A drug user. I enjoy cocaine and/or ecstasy on a night out. The drugs do not control me, I do not have an addiction, I do not do them even every weekend. Before friday night when I indulged in 1/2gram of cocaine, I hadnt touched any hard drugs since new years eve (apart from the morphine they gave me in hospital after surgery, theres another drug for you.)I work as a lab analyst and I do not think my drug use affects my work. I know many other recreational drug users like myself.

But we are one type of hard drug user, another type is the addict who feeds his/her habit through crime, often violent when crack is involved. If this addict was given prescribed drugs along with necessary counselling would this not be better than them committing crimes, and criminals profitting off of dealing.

I know I dislike buying my drugs from shady guys in dark corners of pubs and clubs and would rather buy what I knew was a clean drug, not mixed with anything nasty, from a chemist... Legal drugs takes the trade out of the hands of the criminals.

So I support the legalisation of all drugs... But the evil drugs as I like to call them, crack and smack should only be available on prescription. Other drugs should be availble through your local chemist, or even a new kind of shop. But support for addiction and rehab courses should be large, existing drug and alcohol addiction resources are not nearly enough even as it is.

This is just my opinion.
But then, I am a hard drug user.

If cocaine and heroin where available from Boots at say the price of a pint, maybe too cheap, say 3 pints, would anybody buy crack and smack ?

heroin is smack...

And I didnt suggest making it hugely cheap. Experience has shown that if the Governments gonna let you have your fun, its gonna tax it outrageously.

Class A drugs should be taxed to pay for the education and control aspects of legalisation. Tax and the reduction in crime would make the exercise cost effective.

exactly

speaking as someone who worked for Customs & Excise for 7 years that seems sensible to me
I certainly don't believe the current prohibition policies are working or could ever be made to work