h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

As far as evolution goes, our only purpose is reproduction (but of our genes, so things are more complicated than saying if you don't procreate there was no point). However, why should we feel constrained by that? My life belongs to me, not to evolution.

As far as homosexuality is concerned: some people clearly are, and those people were produced by evolution. Hence, homosexuality is natural (in the evolutionary sense).

I found the following in a book I read while researching for my dissertation last year. It's quite illuminating, and good fun to use with people asking why a person is gay

1) What do you think caused your heterosexuality?

2) When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?

3) Is it possible your heterosexuality is something which you might just grow out of?

4) Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of members of the same sex?

5) Isn't it possible you just need a good gay lover?

6) If heterosexuality is normal, why are a disproportionate number of mental patients heterosexual?

7) To whom have you disclosed your heterosexuality? How did they react?

8) The great majority of child molesters are heterosexuals (95%). Do you really consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?

9) Heterosexuals are noted for assigning themselves and each other to narrowly restricted, stereotyped sex roles. Why do you cling to such an unhealthy form of role playing?

10) Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?

11) There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that you might be able to use to change your sexual orientation. Have you considered aversion therapy to treat your sexual orientation?

12) Why are heterosexuals so promiscuous?

13) Why do you make a point of attributing heterosexuality to famous people? Is it to justify your own sexuality?

14) If you've never slept with someone of the same sex, how do you know you wouldn't prefer that?

15)Why do you insist on being so obvious and making a public spectacle of your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep it quiet?

Usually quite an eye opener. azahar posted it to Della a while back and it was quite illuminating.

That's stunning

There´s probably not many sexual things that can´t be found in nature. Except maybe the part about dressing in rubber outfits. However part of being a civilized human being is that you don´t necessarily follow every impulse or desire that you have.

I was helping someone move house last week, and there was a gay couple there. It was refreshing to see homosexuals who were "average joes" instead of flaming. I´m wondering if all those gay pride marches with men in pink hotpants aren´t hurtful instead of helping gays.

I know what you mean, as I am straight acting. I was at Reading Pride this year, and I felt out of place, bordering on unwelcome. I probably won't go again

I think that so long as the Fabulous gay community doesnt claim to speak for all gay people, i see no reason why they should be harmful... I dont consider myself represented raging feminists, doesnt mean that I dont appreciate the work done by a lot of women for our rights though...

Xan, Im wondernig if you think that "page 3 girls" or women in skimpy outfits on beaches are hurting heterosexual women?

Do they make you have less respect for you mother, Benizir Bhutto or Margaret Thatcher?

My cousin is an electrical egineer for a company that makes food packing machines, yes some of the machines are fudge packers as it happens. he isnt a hair dresser or choreographer and he wears "average joe" clothes. He wouldnt be seen dead in a camouflage kilt or a cream suit with a salmon pink shirt, that's the kind o thing I wear.

You probably come into contact with more gay people than you'd expect but you dont know because they dont mention it. The guy standing next to you at the bar waiting to meet his brother might be gay or straight but you probably wouldnt know most of the time, you just assume his straight because there is no overt signal.

Out of the two of us Im asked more times than Steve is if Im gay.

one love

Blicky: My point was that such things will make people have the perception that homosexual also means camp and effeminate. Which I don´t think will help the cause of homosexuals being treated equally.

I hate to think people shouldnt express themselves because some uninformed people choose to make one stand for all. I know this is an ideal, but then I have no problem with the raging camp and strutting gay men I know any more than I'd have problems with the raging camp and strutting straights I know I guess I'm just one of them pretty easy going types, eh?

What's the point of this thread? Seriously?

As an aside, why should homosexuals have to "justify" themselves in some way anyway? They aren't harming anyone therefore there's nothing wrong with it (and a great deal wrong in oppressing them as history teaches us). Homosexuality has no need to "justify" itself in terms of whether it occurs amongst other animals or any other way.

>>>>> Robyn


'lesbians aren't really gay, they have just had bad experiences with men, all they need is to meet the right man.' <<<<<

What a crock! Im oh so lesbian and have met manymen who are attractive, really, really sweet, honest, kinds, in good jobs etc etc. All the things people think they should have in a partner and yet theres no way on this earth I'd sleep with them or start any more than a friendship.



>>>>>'It's wrong, in the eyes of god, it's a sin and the temptation should be resisted. To fail to resist is to be led by the devil so he may retain your evil soul forever.'<<<<<<

And yet if you go to a church, at some point someone will say, God made us all in his image........ No, God made us all, except gay people, in his image.
Religion in itself is rather hypocritical and bears no weight in this conversation as there is no one religion that everyone follows and so really doesn't need to be mentioned.


Personally, I dont know or much care what makes people gay. I know you can't catch it as is still widely believed. It just is, it maybe a gene, possibly a dodgy gene but a gene none the less, it may be a brain issue as its been tested that apparently, mens and lesbians brains have much more in common that lesbian and heterosexual womens brains. Whatever it is, as soon as someone manages to pin point it, someone will try and work out how to 'fix' it.

Im not sick. If I were, I could call in 'gay' to work and to the best of my knowledge, no job in the world lets you have X amount of gay days/pay and you dont get statutory gay pay!

"Im not sick. If I were, I could call in 'gay' to work and to the best of my knowledge, no job in the world lets you have X amount of gay days/pay and you dont get statutory gay pay!"

Superb.

'Sorry Mr Manager, I won't be in today, I've come over all queer.'

*bites tongue*

Zagreb: >What's the point of this thread? Seriously?<

How am I supposed to answer that? What's the point of h2g2?

Hey, the OP asked for the arguments against, I threw a few in there... I didnt expect any sort of argument, I know it all to be a great big crock of crap. If more people would sort themselves out and learn how to love themsleves and accept themselves they wouldnt feel so much need to point fingers or try to remove rights from others...

I sometimes feel I have to justify my straightness... It's not for lack of trying but as my rather outspoken friend puts it 'I just dont do giblets!'

I'm going for a fag break.

- Robyn Hoode Well said Some people are just ignorant and have phobia of that which they do not understaand, useually based on half-truths, lies and others fears and pointless petty views on stuff that basically ain't any of their concern anyhow. Unfortunately a lot of it that I've known in people is also plain and simple down to the homophobic/racist/etc person just being really rahter stupid and just too thick not to have the phobia/fear/...
For others I guess it might also be a case of their still not having noticed we've changed a bit societially since the 17C, but really if they/such people can cope with the depravity that is colour TV they oughta make a bit of an effort to alter their outlook on other things too

I'm not entirely sure that tackling "arguments" relating to homophobia is the best way of thinking about homophobia if the purpose is trying to understand it, because I don't think homophobia is entirely rational - I think it's an intuitive/emotional response rather than one based upon reason and arguments.

I have a fried who is in his 60s - good guy, life and soul of the party, generous to a fault. One day someone mentioned (cross dressing comedian) Eddie Izzard in conversation. He wrinkled his nose in an expression of distaste and said that he "didn't like that lot", by which he meant homosexuals, and changed the subject. Eddie Izzard isn't gay, but that didn't matter.

My first thought was just to excuse this as a generational issue. I didn't challenge him on it, partly because it was a social occasion, partly because he's a friend, and partly because I didn't think it would do any good. He's not a rabid Christian fundamentalist, he's not a right winger, but he's a traditionalist with the values he grew up with.

Which makes me wonder why. I wonder if it can be put down to three things. One is the "yuck factor". Some heterosexuals (generally men) find even the thought of two men having sex to be disgusting or repulsive. Others have milder version of the same reaction. They just can't understand why people would want to do that. I've heard that some gays and lesbians get the same feelings about heterosexual sex, and I'd be interested to know if that's true, or just a response.

Perhaps the second is a "fear factor". I would find a man making a pass at me very disturbing. A gay flatmate of mine use to pretend to flirt with me, and I have to say I absolutely hated it. At no point did I believe he was serious or would attack me, but it made me feel deeply uncomfortable. He almost accused me of homophobia when I told him in no uncertain terms to stop it, and I told him that I'd react in the same way if a woman did or said similar things if I wasn't interested in her. That was a lie. I justify it by saying that he should never have done it in the first place. Having said that, I do know (apparently) straight men who pretend to flirt with gay male friends, or even other (apparently) straight men. But for me, there's something there that makes me deeply uncomfortable that is not related to fear of attack/molestation. I wonder if homosexuals feel the same way?

Another aspect of the "fear factor" is just the fear of what's different. Some aspects of gay culture (or should I say, some gay cultures) are really alien to the mainstream, and so cause fear or suspicion, in the same way that foreign customs or rituals might.

The third factor, I guess, is the ignorance factor.

Having said that, I guess where 'arguments' do come in is on the level of public policy and legislation, and I think this is probably where it matters. I don't know how much it matters if certain people privately disapprove of homosexuality, as long as the law isn't homophobic.

If they privately disapprove of it they will inevitably act on that disapproval just as privately. I wonder how often my mental health history has cost me an interview, but there's no way I can tell.