h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Not sure about raising the age limit. At 16, a young person can have a full-time job, their own home and all the rights & responsibilities that go with it. Let's not forget it's the actions of an irresponsible few that are the problem.

Speed cameras don't stop speeding. They punish speeders after the fact. They do nothing about reckless driving, drunk driving, driving without insurance etc. I agree with the suggestion that more police are needed. They act as a visual deterrent and are far more flexible.

Re motorway driving being taught. Why? Motorways are the safest roads in the country with by far the lowest accident rates.

Driving in hazardous conditions - how are you going to teach people to drive in fog or into a low winter sun?

I like the idea of having to resit the test every ten or so years - I think that would do a lot to improve standards.

The idea, as in NZ, of having to have a supervisor in the car if you want to drive would put me off learning to drive completely - the whole point of having a car is being independent. Plus I can't imagine anyone who I could get to 'supervise' me.

Being a bit controversial, I'd make a cycling proficiency test and a certain number of hours cycling on roads part of the standard driving test. It'd hopefully make more motorists aware of how vulnerable other road users feel

I'd like to see people who get their licence taken away have to resit the driving test. Preferably an extra tough version. It would be very interesting to see what that would do to the accident rates

>>At 16, a young person can have a full-time job, their own home and all the rights & responsibilities that go with it.<<

Yes, but generally having a full time job and owning a home don't kill and maim people.

I'd be interested to know if there are issues with thinking and motor skills in teens, or if the high road toll of young people is totally related to social and behavioural issues.


>>Speed cameras don't stop speeding. <<

er, actually they do. There is a mobile speed camera near where I live and it does slow the traffic down.

>>
They do nothing about reckless driving, drunk driving, driving without insurance etc.
<<

But they're not designed to do those things. There are other ways of addressing those issues. There is no doubt that speed is a hugely significant factor in road deaths. Why not police that?

I do think that police (here at least) use speed cameras also for revenue generation (although they deny it).

Speed cameras simply mean people slam their brakes on. Recently I was overtaken by motorbikes (while I was in the middle of overtaking a cyclist, indicators on and everything!) only for them to spot the speed camera right in front of me, and they slammed their brakes on. As I drive a motorhome, not a car, it's not as easy for me to stop suddenly, and there was panic and chaos. I wasn't close to hitting one, yet I had no idea if they were stopping, or just slowing down, bearing in mind I was finishing an overtaking manouver, so I had to act as if it was an emergency stop!

I wasn't speeding, at all, I just don't, yet although I was within the speed limit I still nearly had an accident at a speed camera simply because the motorcyclists were bottomwipes.

And youngsters can't take all the blame, an old woman pulled out in front of me recently, she looked, saw a motorhome, decided she didn't want to be behind me, and pulled out right in front of me. I nearly hit her rear passenger door, because again, I CAN'T SLOW DOWN AS QUICK AS A CAR.



Sorry, not what this thread is about, but when I'm told I shouldn't be going so fast (what, 30? In the case of the old granny I was pulling away from a temp traffic light, so couldn't have been going over 20 mph at the time) because it takes me longer to stop I want to smack people.

It should be taught that the heavier you are, the longer it takes to brake, and the difference can be as small as one person in a car, to having a fully loaded car.

>>Re motorway driving being taught. Why? Motorways are the safest roads in the country with by far the lowest accident rates<<

There's also the issue of how someone in Cornwall learns to drive on a motorway. A kid in Truro would have to make a 200 mile round trip, which takes at least 5 hours.

And that's just the mainland UK - what about folk up in the Highlands and Islands, or the Channel Islands, or the Isles of Scilly?

They could be exempt from that but have a supplementary exam in methods of getting in everyone's way in a tractor

More seriously, I don't know about cutting engine size for youngsters. My old Metro was capable of 110 mph and was a 1.4. That's still a pretty lethal speed although a Subaru would obviously beat that.

That New Zealand series of methods that Kea mentioned sounds rather draconian, but it also sounds like it might just work.

I had a Mini 850 when I was at college. I reckon everyone should have to drive one of those for a year. It teaches you humility, to be aware of your mirrors and the value of consideration. I read that the car industry is very keen on limited engine size/power for new drivers. They have models specifically aimed at this potentially lucrative niche market lined up & ready to go.

"I'd like to see people who get their licence taken away have to resit the driving test. Preferably an extra tough version. It would be very interesting to see what that would do to the accident rates"

Is that not what does happen already? If you get more than 12 points within a certain time of getting your licence you lose it, and have to resit. And I know there's a specially extended test for some offenders.

Off to rummage for more facts.

I've had this view for years:

Firstly, accept speed cameras exist, learn to control your speed. If everyone stopped triggering them, they would take them down, they wouldnt pay for themselves, by speeding you keep the cameras up, well done.

Secondly, I think restricting engine size is a great idea. You might be able to go fast, but you're screwing the off it and it's not by 'accident' as is so easy in a 2litre or somesuch...

Thirdly, Every five years, you sit a theory test. If you fail you have a month to pass a practical test or your licence becomes invalid until the test is taken and passed. This would encourage people to keep on top of road rules, no matter how much they change. And might encourage those less able to give up their cars. I know plenty of people who shouldnt drive but do because they can...

The cost is an issue, but I think it's necessary. If we were al on the same page, maybe there'd be less road rage too!?

Oh, and get driving instructors up to date too... They al lhave different ideas! My friend was taught that a section of motorway (clearly signed) that has a slip road along it that doesnt join the motorway as such (road marking etc) was ok for a learner to drive up... He said it was ok and didnt count as motorway... I'm sorry, you go past the big blue motorway sign, you're on the bleeding motorway! And he was TEACHING her! Am I wrong?

Personally, I don't think you could practically introduce driving tests for all drivers every X years. But, what I'd do is introduce a law saying anyone who accumulates 6 points on their licence has to re-take their test and pass it before any points are cleared.

I don't think it's a case of not *knowing* the Highway Code, as not caring about it.

Driving isn't difficult. Really, it isn't. Bad driving isn't caused by a lack of knowledge, it's because people know they can get away with it. I'm sure I've read that Road Cops are running at 20% of the level of a few years ago. Instead we've got a plethora of speed cameras and roadside vans who only cure speeding at the specific point they're placed. And they are primarily, (but not always) about revenue generation. Notice how on long stretches of road covered by Average Speed Cameras, they take the speed limit signs down? There's a 28 mile stretch of the A77 that has had the majority of the signs removed.

>> Bad driving isn't caused by a lack of knowledge, it's because people know they can get away with it.<<

I'm in complete agreement with you SWL, there!

I live in a kind of rabbit warren of back streets and there are no speed cameras here. There are some of those hump things, but they are fairly low and any decent driver can negotiate them without damaging their undercarriage. And some people continue to drive like maniacs in these streets where kids are playing. To my mind that's every bit as bad a crime as carrying a knife. And yet they continually do it and get away with it because of the lack of police pressence.

I can't believe why people do it. When I'm driving in a built up area, past lots of parked cars, it just feels so dangerous to go above 30mph, and I often drive less than that. At any moment a child may dart out

That info I said I'd look up:

New Drivers Act, introduced in 95. If you amass more than 6 points in the 2 years after passing your first test then your licence is revoked and you have to do your test again.

Extended Practical Test, introduced 92 - for disqualified drivers particularly in cases of dangerous driving, but can be imposed by the courts. Drivers have to resit a specially long practical test, which includes dual carriageways.

Speeding in built-up areas with kids playing is one of my biggest bugbears in driving, it's about the most selfish and ignorant thing one can do behind a wheel imo. Especially when one hand is on the steering wheel and the other is on the mobile phone

The trouble with sleeping policeman (speed bumps) however is that should someone in the area require the emergency services - fire or ambulance for example then the emergency vehicle can be seriously hampered by these things. I've heard on many occasions of the fire service complaining about them. Really severe ones pee them off even more severely.

I do think if people were being made more constantly and consistently aware of the *shoulds* of driving, then their actions would, in the most, refelect that. At the very least there would be absolutely no excuses... so many people for instance dont know that the speed limit, in a car, on a dual carriageway, is 70mph... Those who choose to ignore the information could with no moral wavering whatsoever, have the book thrown at them.

Better policing of bad driving and the ability to advise drivers on how to drive better, rather than having to charge them (with a note made, on a database perhaps (by driver's licence number) would be nice, for instance:

22/10/05: "warned that turning right on roundabouts from the left hand lane is not safe or considerate driving"

03/02/06:"Given second warning re: lane discipline"

15/05/06:"Driver given one month to arrange, take and pass a retest (practical) exam or licence will be rescinded until a full practical test is taken"

Wouldn't that be nice? I know it's a complex issue, making sure it;s fair and just etc, but I bring the ideals, people get actually paid to make it work properly!

People say they dont want nannying, as far as I'm concerned, if you cant act like an adult (I'm talking, behaving with a reasonable amount of respect for others and responsibility for oneself) then you need to be treated like a child, i.e. Nannied. (who makes the arbitrary decisions as to where the lines are, I dont know, but that's way too philosphical for me today...)

70 mph on a dual carriageway - but not always. What's the speed limit on a dual carriageway in a built-up area with street lighting?

Some motorways are 50mph.

Some towns are 30mph, some are 40mph. Some are 20mph.

It varies a lot which is why I object to speed limit signs being taken down on a 28 mile stretch of the A77.

Oh it varies alright! We do need better (not necessarily MORE, but BETTER) street signing. Speed limits and route/lane information are REALLY important! (and ought to match what's written on the road itself too... )

I still dont understand why people can call themelves drivers when they have to slow down to five or ten mph below the speed limit to pass through speed cameras... When I'm not being driven up the wall by the audacity of people who think they are in full and capable control of a vehicle but dont even know how fast they are going or how to control themselves and hold a steady speed, I find it highly amusing and laugh at them. Lots

Now that's something that really grinds my gears

Lane signs. In a strange town approaching a junction or roundabout in heavy traffic you have to make a decision really early which lane to be in. Often, because of bends and/or traffic, you don't even know a junction is coming up. Then you find yourself in a stream of traffic taking you in the wrong direction.

It's not usually speed that kills the young motorist, but acceleration and showing off, and although you can get some soupy small engines you're not going to get the same acceleration out of a metro as you are a cosworth.

Or only let them have a 1000cc engine. My Hijet wounldn't go more than 70 mph