h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It IS always assumed that people are speeding, even when people are DRIVING they think they are speeding in their OWN cars! At least, that's the only reason I can think of that people pass through speed cameras 5 to 10 mph below the speed limit then accelerate away again.

>> The answer is clear - build more roads. I've never seen a convincing argument against road-building anyway.
<<

There's those small matters of climate change and peak oil <<

Those are arguments against use of petroleum-based fuels. Not against cars.

RF

No, they're arguments against building lots more roads. It's incredibly energy intensive to build and maintain roads, and build, maintain and dispose of cars (even electric ones or whatever other technology we come up with). Think cradle to grave. The very high level of consumption and development we have is built on oil and as that oil gets more expensive and less available the economies simply won't be able to manage.

Those things are also inherently polluting in terms of climate change (not to mention other aspects of the planet). Again think cradle to grave.

I blame the Romans.

>> Those things are also inherently polluting in terms of climate change (not to mention other aspects of the planet). Again think cradle to grave. <<

No, you're thinking "current technology". Look to the future.

RF

Developing technology - http://www.epsrc.ac.uk/PressReleases/HydrogenBreakthrough.htm

RF, I'm not thinking current technology, I'm thinking about the analyses that say that there is nothing on the horizon that will give us the degree of power that oil has *in time* to keep the oil monolith economy going. Therefore it's prudent to not waste the advantage that oil gives us by building new roads or partying like it's 1999. We should be using it to adjust to a lower energy society and ensuring things like food, water and shelter security.


SWL, we *are the Romans

Once oil is priced out of the future, then future technologies will provide our energy and transport requirements.

The Stone Age didn't end because we ran out of stone. It ended because stone was no longer economically and technologically viable. The same will happen with oil.

RF

So with the hydrogen technology, will it be sufficient not just to get a car to travel 300km without refueling, but also to mine all the materials needed to build the car, transport them to the factories, build the cars, transport the cars to the market, build and maintain all the infrastructure of the mining and car manufacturing plants, plus the ships and ship manufacturing and maintaining plants that are need to get all this stuff to market?

Plus the materials to build the roads, and the materials and energy needed to make the machinery to get the materials and to build the roads, and the energy needed to maintain them?

Oh and then there's how you dispose of all those things when they don't work/aren't needed anymore.

You might be right RF but if you are wrong we're screwed (hence the precautionary apporaach).

The issue isn't that we are going to run out of oil. The issue is that we don't have those technologies in place now, in time for the end of cheap oil. There's enough evidence and analysis to suggest that somehow we will find some new tehcnology that is as *efficient* and *cheap* as oil is wishful thinking rather than guaranteed.

>> The issue isn't that we are going to run out of oil. The issue is that we don't have those technologies in place now, in time for the end of cheap oil. There's enough evidence and analysis to suggest that somehow we will find some new tehcnology that is as *efficient* and *cheap* as oil is wishful thinking rather than guaranteed. <<

You really have no understanding of economics, do you? Come back to me when you do.

Till then, here's a rock. Do with it what you will.

RF

>>
You really have no understanding of economics, do you? Come back to me when you do.
<<



You really have no understanding of debate, do you? Come back when you can refute the points rather than having a go at me.


I didn't make that stuff up. It's what economists, scientists, environmentalists etc are talking about. Maybe you should be reading a bit wider?