h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thing is, you can break it down to 'how safe are our roads', but that wasnt the thread title... I thought it was about driving standards. Now obviously fatalities caused by cars is one aspect of that, but how many aware drivers are successfully covering for those who are, IMO, far too selfish and unaware to be at liberty in charge of a lethal machine? And how many of those less than ideal drivers are simply accidents, potentially fatal or otherwise, waiting to happen?

People will always make mistakes, have lapses of concentration and so on, but is it so bad, in an ideal world, to want the base level of driving ability to be higher and more demanding?

~Yes, there's the problem of cost and what would replace personal transport, but ignoring bad driving and saying that it's not important because we dont kill as many people a year or a mile (and lets face of it, there's more americans than brits before we even start with statistics) is hardly going to help the problem...

Dogster - "But, it's rather expensive and time consuming to do the advanced driving test, so I haven't."

Speaking as a member of the IAM I feel I have to respond to this.

http://www.iam.org.uk/eshop/membershipshop/sfl.htm

The total cost of becoming a member of the IAM is £85 plus petrol. If you are under 25 years old you even get £20 off that price.

This includes the advanced driving book, all your test preparation, the cost of the test inself, and also you're first years membership of the institute. Subsequent years membership costs around £12 per year and includes the members magazine.

It doesn't even cost that much in terms of time. You'll go out with an observer from your local group for an hour or two, usually once a fortnight probably on a Saturday or Sunday morning. The observers are all local volunteers so the "lessons" don't cost anything. Most people are test-ready after six to eight observed runs.

And all for the cost of what, two tanks of petrol?

It'll be the best money you've ever spent on your driving.

Fathom - "Unfortunately if driving tests get tougher and insurance rates get higher there will inevitably be a proportionate increase in the number of unlicenced and uninsured drivers who simply can't or won't go to the trouble and expense of staying within the law."

This is true. However, driving without a license or insurance is a far more severe crime than, say, careless driving. So when someone has an accident it'll be much easier to get them off the road and fine them to buggery than it would be otherwise. Then, as SWL says, mandatory jail term for a second offence.

What if you're too poor to re-take the test? What if there is no alternative public transport available? Who cares? Should have thought of that before you abused the privilages of your license (or lack of license).

Thanks for the info Hoo, I had been misled about the costs of it. I'm kind of surprised that it's a volunteer thing. Am not living in the UK for the next year or two, but I'll look into it when I get back.

While there is always a problem with justice (or lack of it sometimes) I do believe that a little more responsibilty being forced back on people (actions: consequence) would be a good idea. And while costs would, initially at least, go up with policing it, once the culture has been chnanged, once people have learned they will NOT get away with it, chances are, we'd have less problems than we do now.

Of course, it could get worse, we could have anarchy, who knows? What I DO know is that our current system doesnt work. How can it when it's cheaper to pay a fine for not having insurance than it is to pay the insurance on a vehicle you might feel you have a right to drive (i.e. a high-powered hatch etc.)

<>This is true. However, driving without a license or insurance is a far more severe crime than, say, careless driving. So when someone has an accident it'll be much easier to get them off the road and fine them to buggery than it would be otherwise. Then, as SWL says, mandatory jail term for a second offence.<

You say that, but I recall a driver not so long ago being given a six month suspended sentence for doing a hit and run whilst driving without a license and no insurance - he killed someone. At the same time, he was given a year in jail for not having a valid passport!
With crappy sentencing like that, what disincentive is there to bother getting a license and insurance.
Also, you have to catch the person to get them done and that may be no easy task if they bugger off from an accident if their car is unisured, unlicensed and untraceable because of this.

One of the best new laws I've seen is where, if you are caught driving without tax or insurance, the car is taken off you on the spot and taken to the crusher. No appeals, no argument. Judging by the quite obvious glee on the faces of the Police enforcing it, they agree with the measure too.

Indeed

>>if you are caught driving without tax or insurance, the car is taken off you on the spot and taken to the crusher<<

That doesn't bother me half as much as poor and dangerous driving. But I'd be more than happy seeing that happen to people's cars who are caught speeding in a built up area.

or the eejits who cut you up - or drive past a line of rush hour traffic waiting to turn left at a busy t-junction (that would be right for all you lot who drive on the wrong side of the road ) and turn left anyway just because they have a big BMW. (yes mr MG XY 956 I am talking about you today at around 17:25 in Lürip)...

it is the standard of driving and the "me me me me" attitude of drivers that has to be addressed. And that isn't going to happen.

I'd much rather use public transport. Anyone who makes it widely available gets my vote.

(oh and, was it Dogster, with the infringing Liberties comment? of course I commented on that. generally I broadly agree with you but that was a flippant comment that needed speaking up on!)

Well presumably the set of those who partake in poor and dangerous driving intersects rather well with those who don't give a toss about paying for insurance or getting a license.

I daresay there are some excellent drivers who have no license or insurance but I'm guessing that's not generally the case.

If you've taken a bus somewhere either in Cardiff or Birmingham recently (my areas of expertise ) - you'd be asking the question.
"What shall we do about bus drivers' driving standards"

Believe me

I live in the middle of nowhere. And today I heard, driving back from work, that a bus I used to use regularly (from Holland to a small town near where I live) had an incident featuring a policeman and some armed maniac

but in general, I don't mind buses, trains or (my favourite) trams. I don't even mind changing once... if only my village was big enough to be on the map we might get a decent bus service outside of the schoolkids bus in the morning / afternoon.

When I was staying with a French family during the Easter hols (hols -- I have been reading too many English boarding school novels, haven't I?) before my French oral exam (2001), the oldest son could drive, but only when accompanied by his parents. And they had to stick a sign in the back window saying so.

Meanwhile, in Bulgaria I believe that drunk driving is considered a very serious offence: perpetrators are executed by firing squad.

TRiG.

it may be because of his job, but knows several people who either drink and drive and don't care. Or who have lost their licences (usually temporarily) and laugh about doing the "idiot test" to get it back

I don't mind buses but I do when I get on one and he speeds, is extremely aggressive with both pedestrians and other drivers and even gets involved in a collision.**
OK that was an extreme but I've got fed up with buses recently who career around corners so that those standing up are hurled about (yes driver, some are elderly), don't stop unless you stand next to their cockpit, despite the sign on the bus telling you *not* to do this. etc etc.
Bad driving is alive and well in public transport too - and they can kill a lot of people at once.






Admittedly with someone who was trying to overtake him in a stupid place - although I saw her coming through and I know he did too so he was just being bloody minded.

I would suggest that the thoughtless drivers cover pretty much every area and type of person. Young women, older women, 4x4s, sports cars, men, old bangers, average cars, average people... I've been cut up, undertaken, inconvenienced and pushed about by em all... And I've double checked street signs and road rules to make sure it's not me that's the problem. It's a culture.

Now, how do you approach the middle-aged executive who drives a nice big rover and the little gobshite who farts around in a side-skirted renault five and get the same message across to them both that we are ALL trying to get somewhere and a little respect a cooperation is a basic necesity for being allowed to drive on britain's roads, not an OPTION for those who have time or feel like it...

>Meanwhile, in Bulgaria I believe that drunk driving is considered a very serious offence: perpetrators are executed by firing squad.<



Where on earth did you get that from? Bulgaria is in the European Union is it not?

It therefore cannot have a death penalty at all. Not for murder, let alone drink driving

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR150211998?open&of=ENG-BGR

Perhaps what's needed is some sort of incentive scheme - Hoovooloo mentioned IAM, which is optional. If that or a similar scheme of demonstrating competence was promoted more, linked with a significant reduction in insurance costs, might more people be inclined to do it?

I got it from a barely remembered Lonely Planet guidebook. Europe on a Shoestring, I think. Out of date, certainly.

TRiG.