h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

So breaking treaties and wiping out people with biological warfare is alright then? It wasn't for a certain Saddam, but this is the good ol' US of A we are talking about here, so I am sure it was all done in the name of freedom.

I would agree that the treaty should be enforced. If the owners do not want the people there, then they should be gone. Hypocracy makes me sick, angry sick. My £0.02. Until later....
BCNU - Crescent

reply to post 198:

Leo, congratulations

now...with those amazing figures I wonder; isn't there any social security or health care for native americans (i still don't like to have to use the term american) or for americans in common. According to what I read (Micheal Moore) Americans must pay their own health care and hospitalisation cost's. Is this true...and if so; isn't there a link between the low income and the low life expectancy?

Quote: So it's a slum. slums get razed. No problem.

Dear Starrat

Are you American? If you are, then thank you for so publicly and eloquently proving the point that as a representative of your people you know nothing, care for nothing and are utterly ignorant scum.

I sincerely hope you live somewhere like South Central LA or somewhere where there is a high likelihood of you being hit in a drive by shooting. With your totally outrageous and pathetic comment, you highlight all that is worst and evil in the US.

If you are not American, then to all Americans I apologise for my comments above against America. Whatever country you come from Starrat, you sad little man, you are biggoted, evil, ignorant and utterly worthless in your views. If you have nothing to add to this adult debate except your juvenile and sarcastic one liners, then go back to your play station.

>>the entire country now known as the USA was taken by force, murder and subjugation against the wishes of the people who were there.<<

so were a heck of a lot of other places. I'm not saying that the treaties shouldn't be honored. They should. But to suggest kicking all white men out of NA because they've taken over... sorry. Its not going to happen, and if you want more support for your cause, dont advertise your feeling about it.

If you'd like examples:
Like England. Ever hear of Normans and Saxons? The Saxons were second class citizens for a couple of centuries until the assimilation was done.

How about the Franks, the Goths, and all those Germanic tribes that took over Europe in the middle ages? They vandalized the continent, and then settled down to live there, by might, if not right.

The strip of land known as Israel: started out with 7 canaanite nations. Israelites took it over. Romans drove them out. Arabs came in. Jews came back. Hmmmm... maybe we should kick out both the palestinians and the Jews and give it to the canaanites...

speaking of Arabs... during their golden era, after Mohammed, they annexed the entire middle east and part of the far east.

And *all* of these did all sorts of unmentionable things to the people they took over.

Like I said. Treaties should be honored. But the first white men who came over had nothing to do with that, and have as much of a right to the land they took over as any other of the above nations does.

Like they say, two wrongs don´t make a right. And I´m sure the NA´s did some nasty things to each other as well. They had quite a few internal wars as I understand.

>>Let me summarise for the Pine Ridge reservation alone:
• 80% unemployment.
• Poorest county in the USA. Average family income is just $3,700 per year.
• High rates of alcoholism, heart disease, and cancer.
• Extremely high rate of diabetes. Almost half of the population over 40 on the Pine Ridge Reservation have diabetes.
• Life expectancy for men is 48 years. Life expectancy for women is 52.
• Highest infant mortality rate in the USA<<

I'm truly horrified.
only, where's the diabetes from? Isn't that a disease you're born with, or acquire through obesity?

Also, why is there such unemployment? Cant they get jobs on/off the reservation?

I resent this being called a debate. Who's debating? I'm trying to find out about this stuff from someone who knows. NObody else seems to be a steady poster.

What were the life expectancies and infant mortality rates before 1492? Anyone know?

Reply to post 204

I am not suggesting that ALL white people are removed from the US - my post originally dealt with the Black Hills in South Dakota. I would advocate that whites are removed from there as the Treaty signed quite clearly states that it belongs to the Lakota people.
More than happy to help inform anybody who is seriously interested in finding out more on the whole Plains Indian subject.

Leo - did you read any of the Web sites I posted links to?

To Xanatic

Yes, for sure the natives did have internal disputes and some were quite nasty. HOWEVER, a very large proportion of disputes were settled by "Counting Coup". This involved what would look like a full on battle, but the object was to get as close as you could to your opponent and then tapping him with his "Coup" stick.
If you could do this, it demonstrated that you could have killed him and the one tapped then removed themselves from the "Conflict".
This resulted in bloodless resolution of the vast majority of disputes.

Out of interest, "Scalping" was completely unknown to the Native tribes until the Spanish used it on the tribes first. The natives then took it up in retalliation............

hoooold it there with the scalping. Just two months ago the Smithsonian Magazine did an entire project on scalping. They concluded that nobody is quite sure who started the whole business, but it looked very very suspiciously native.
Maybe the Lakota nation didn't scalp until it was introduced to them, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a common practice more to the east.

Also, I *did* read your links, they were actually pretty interesting, but they only stated facts, not "why"s. Hence, my questions.

!!National Slur Alert!!

>>Are you American? If you are, then thank you for so publicly and eloquently proving the point that as a representative of your people you know nothing, care for nothing and are utterly ignorant scum.<<

>>Whatever country you come from Starrat, you sad little man, you are biggoted, evil, ignorant and utterly worthless in your views<<

Erhem. *IF* starrat comes from the USA, he is a representative of his nation. IF NOT, then he is merely a bigoted and ignorant individual.

Anyone else notice something wrong here?

a reply to post 41:
<<Why should i feel bad for a kid who contracted AIDs because he made an <<irresponsible decision based on animal impulse rather then human <<thought? ....
<<Still, its not like there aren't enough people around to show what the
<< consequences are. Its not just stupid, its plain ol' dumb.

No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of
the Continent, a part of the main; if a Clod be washed away
by the Sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a Promontory were,
as well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine own were;
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
- John Donne
Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions

Here here GOT!

Kahil Gibran speaks of this too in The Prophet - how any man can never sink lower than the lowest point within us all, or reach higher then our shared highest conciousness.

Leo, i didn't read the backlog of the offensive maybe-American, but the Doc was making a point - offensive and purile responses are expected from Americans - out here in the rest of the world - isn't it a pity that we witness that type of behaviour and say - Aha! there's the American in the room!
Its not a justification, but it must be a burden to belong to a nation that is full of so many clods!
In the conversation the weight of assumption would go to a defensive remark here coming from an American . . .

Having said all of that - i was overwhelmed and overjoyed the other day to have caught Oprah, where she's now got an international journalist traipsing all over the globe to do stories on people and situations in other places! Woohooo! Go to it Oprah! Now maybe people in the US will get some exposure to what's really out there . . . and if they know , , then maybe they'll begin to care! Anyhow, was my little high of the day.

Keep passing open windows all

how does american healthcare works? all of it? do you have to pay your own medical bills? tell me everything please...

you buy insurance, and then they pay most of everything.

why should we keep passing open windows?

i donno, maybe so we can see if theres some cool stuff inside to steal!
cheers
soon to be dead ford

atom boy: here's a slightly more detailed description. Basically, you pay your premiums, and they will pay most of your bills. You only have to make a small co-payment, approximately $10 on my policy, no matter what it's for.

>>Buying a medical insurance policy is more of an ongoing process than a one time purchase. To maintain your health coverage, each month you pay a fee, or premium to your medical insurance company.

This payment is similar to club dues. The money is not earmarked specifically for your use, but is instead the cost of membership. In this case, your premium won't go only towards your future health care services; it's simply the fee you pay to be covered by your health insurance company.
The deductible, co-payment and co-insurance

But the cost of health services is not simply eliminated by paying the monthly premium. There are other costs associated with major medical insurance coverage.

The first cost you'll encounter is the deductible. The deductible is a pre-arranged dollar figure that you'll have to satisfy before the health insurance company begins to contribute any money to your health care costs.

Your deductible can be a significant out-of-pocket expense, particularly because it must be satisfied each year before the company pays. (So paying $1000 this year for medical services will not decrease your deductible next year.)

Deductibles can range from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand. Some health insurance policies do not have deductibles ever and others have them only in certain cases.

The other expenses are co-payments and co-insurance. All medical insurance policies will ask that you agree to one or both of these charges. Co-insurance means you'll be required to pay a certain percentage of your health care costs, and a co-payment means you'll be required to pay a certain dollar figure for each service.

These are usually charged in addition to a deductible. However, in either case, the medical insurance company should pay a substantial amount (or percentage) in comparison to your financial responsibility.

The point of having medical insurance is, after all, to alleviate the financial burden on you and your family in case of medical emergencies and/or chronic illness.<<

ok, i see. But what whith people with minimum (or less) income? Do they have healthcare insurance?

(sorry for drifting offtopic, but i'm just so curious to find wether micheal moore has a point in the eyes of the hootoo american)

Atom Boy, you have inadvertently created a new hyphenated ethnic group, and I can now call myself a proud Hootoo-American.
Thanks!

a hootoo american...cool, and as the hootoo american is not color or racially specified I even can say "cool" and dont have to kick myself for being stupid