h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>and who pray for forgiveness in the early hours of the morning<<

I often pray early in the morning. It's usually something along the lines of:

"Why, why, why am I awake at this ungodly hour?"

As for atheists, and folk in general not respecting their leaders - what about the big H-man who was recently referenced? He was the leader of the German people - should he have been respected? If not, please be exact in stating why not and how you distinguish between a leader worthy of respect and not.

That's the problem with the whole "render unto Caesar" bit - it's so clearly man-made. I had a Catholic acquaintance use it as an argument against democracy, not spotting the obvious bit of who has sovereignty (and is therefore the "Caesar") in a democracy.

That's also an Islamic argument against democracy: Only god has authority.

But in fairness...other Muslims (albeit erroneously) point to Muhammed's early Umma as the prototype for democracy.

On the subject of lack of respect for a supreme being:

Most of you are likely aware of the recent events in Brazil involving a nine year old girl who had been sexually abused by her step father since she was six. In the end she became pregnant as a result of the abuse. Pregnant with twins. She was a very small nine-year-old and her doctors were fairly certain that she would not survive the pregnancy. I expect they had little hope for the twins as well. So, in consultation with the girl's mother, an abortion was performed, whereupon, the Catholic Church excommunicated the doctors. When asked whether the stepfather was going to be excommunicated for his part in the girl's ordeal, the local Archbishop said that the stepfather's crimes were not at all as bad as the doctors'. So, saving a little girl's life is a greater crime than is repeated paedophilic rape and abuse under the authority of the supreme being.

Why respect that?

HonestIago.

If we are talking about political leaders then they should be respecting us as *they* are our employees and *we* are their employers.

We have a mass interviewing system and then voting system by said interview panel who decide who we will employ (and pay) for the next 4years or so to run the country.

And all we get from our employees are lies, more puritan laws, scandel, never answering a straight question etc etc etc.

If MP's behaved like they do now in a private company to their employers they would be out the door looking for a new job.

Anhaga, do you have a link for that story?

>>If we are talking about political leaders then they should be respecting us as *they* are our employees and *we* are their employers.<<

Very true. That's the point I made to this Catholic guy - in the UK, I'm sovereign along with the other 48ish million of us entitled to vote. Therefore I need to respect myself and part of that is calling out MPs who are chipping away at civil liberties.

Just a moment, Clive. . .

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/07/catholic-abortion.html


I've also just come across another story which certainly makes me want to respect religious authority:

' The sentencing of a 75-year-old widow to 40 lashes and four months in prison for mingling with two young men who were reportedly bringing her bread has sparked new criticism of Saudi Arabia's ultraconservative religious police and judiciary.

Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi, was convicted and sentenced last week for meeting with men who were not her immediate relatives. The two men, including one who was Sawadi's late husband's nephew, were also found guilty and sentenced to prison terms and lashes.'

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506984,00.html

I'd call the Saudi legal system blasphemous, myself.

HI:
>>in the UK, I'm sovereign along with the other 48ish million of us entitled to vote.

Check your passport! We're subjects, not citizens.

On the other hand...we, in common with the Windsor family, are citizens of the EU.

Thanks.

Showed this to mum, who said I'm confusing things that think they are religious when they are not.

One True Religion - now where have I heard that one before?

from what I can see, religious authority pretty consistently comes down on the wrong side of morality.

supplementary to my last post:




http://www.jesusandmo.net/

This post has been removed.

*sigh*

That's a hideous thing to say Warner. I don't think I could ever wilfully support the torture and murder of another human being; tragically this is something that religious authorities are well established practitioners of. Look to your own before you start accusing us of crimes against humanity.

It's not just a hideous thing to say, it obscures the fact that Jesus was tortured and killed by religious people. The concept of living by reason comes and goes throuout history. Jesus' time was not one of the reasonable ones.

>>You're the sort of people to plot for the crucufixion of Jesus.<<

warner on this thread precisely one person has said it's okay to physically and mentally abuse people. That person is you.

Us 'immoral' atheists have reacted with disgust.

To a casual observer it seems like you're projecting so hard we could use you to display Powerpoints (other presentation software is available).

I wonder...*was* Jesus plotted against? I thought he was rounded up as a troublemaker.

>>I wonder...*was* Jesus plotted against? I thought he was rounded up as a troublemaker.<<
Was he? So who was Jesus then? I can tell from your comments in this thread that you think that he was either a liar or a madmen.
But you tell me ..

Liar or madman - do I sense a strawman?

>>But you tell me ..

Certainly.

It's entirely possible that there was someone called Jesus in C1st CE Palestine, and he may have been one of the many wandering seers in that religiously fractious era.

It is far less likely that the Gospels present an accurate picture of the details of his life...and the stuff about miracles, ressurection, son of god, etc. is simply preposterous.

But treating Jesus as a fictional character - albeit one *possibly* based on real life - I don't recall a Gospel account of a plot against him.

Liar or Madman? Well...I think it's open to us to read anything we like into a fictional character, surely?