h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>> ...children. They're so innocent and can understand the meaning of God so easily. It would be very interesting to do a survey of young people (teenagers)... <<

Yes, children have a natural feeling for the metaphysical whirled. They absorb into this natural spirituality the myths they are taught by whatever society they grow up in; and often, as they learn to think for themselves, they find irreconcilable conflicts of fact, fiction and feeling.

Happily they soon reach puberty (aka: knowledge of the 'original' sin) and turn hostile toward everything that tries to control or inhibit their libidos. It is at this vulnerable age that the forces of evil can offer them support for their anti-social behaviour, take their souls and sign them up for some Atheist mailing list.


~j~

I've mentioned this before around here somewhere, but I was fifteen years old before I realized that there were people around that still believed in God. Up to that point, I had always figured that it was something that people believed in the olden days, sort of like how the Greeks used to believe in Zeus and Co.

Very true, jwf, very true!

And anhaga coming from "the Land of Cain" (God's country) Tut, tut.

no response, warner, to my anecdotal responses to your suggestion that children are naturally believers, apart from the 'land of Cain' joke, which, frankly, I didn't understand (was it a joke?)

anhaga
>>anecdotal responses to your suggestion that children are naturally believers<<
The suggestion comes from "the newscientist" whose link I posted.
Of course, I wholeheartedly agree with it.

Oh, and by the way. Who knows in what state of belief (or disbelief) any of us will die? Not you, nor I!

from your link, warner:

'Our brains effortlessly conjure up an imaginary world of spirits, gods and monsters'


The study is an argument that everyone, not just children, find it easy to believe in 'an *imaginary* world of spirits, gods and monsters' *of their own creation* -- we easily believe in things that are manifestly untrue. It's certainly not an argument for the *actual* existence of gods.

I'm very glad to hear that you agree with it wholeheartedly.

Yes, the NS article was good.

But I suggest that maybe warner is reading the wrong conclusions into it. Simply because children are prepared to attribute creation to god, that doesn't mean that god exists. It could be either/both that:
a) Children learn the god idea from their carers at an early age. (Note that children are also prepared to believe that all those presents under the tree come from Santa)
b) God is a reasonable starting hypothesis for those who don't know any better - ie without an understanding of Darwin. (although, in fairness, many pre-Darwinians also knew better).

I don't want to rely too much on anecdote - but I note that my own children, who had an Atheist upbringing, only encountered god when they started school. My seven year old son tells me that Jesus is a king. I haven't seen any evidence of a god concept from them - even when my daughter had a temporary crush on an evangelistic teacher and got into Bible stories.

Finally - I'm suspicious of squiggles' notion that children have a hotline to the metaphysical. They just like stories! They're prepared to believe anything a trusted adult tells them. But they're more interested in Pikachu than treesandflowersandsky. My own children for many years believed that monkeys picked bananas from the trees and carried them to supermarkets on their shoulders, and that coconuts were bears' eggs. I justify my lies on the basis of innoculating them against believing everything they're told.

>>Oh, and by the way. Who knows in what state of belief (or disbelief) any of us will die? Not you, nor I!

Wellll...true. But there's certainly no reason to assume deathbed conversions. Instead we should look at cases such as David Hume. When he was dying very painfully from cancer, many well-meaning believers visited him to try to get him to believe. H eadamantly refused. When asked whether he'd admit that it was at least *possible* that there was a heaven and hell, he pointed at his hearth and said:
'Aye - and 'tis possible that a coal upon the fire may not burn.'

"Being surrounded by nature rather than concrete (man-made stuff), is very likely a big influence, IMHO."

Well, in the rural areas I grew up in a) I was very much not in with the other kids as I went to church and b) have you seen congregation numbers in rural areas? If anywhere, the real growth of the church (CofE and Methodist, can;t speak for the RC) is in inner city areas. Rural areas are a real problem to the churches just maintaining the buildings with such small congregations.

Of course, the main reason for the success of the churches in inner city areas is that they pay attention to the people having problems and living in (or near) poverty. They offer an escape and some respite from the hardships of life - which has long been a primary role of religion (even if it has not been accepted as such).

Trust me, there's just as many atheists in the countryside!

>>Olivera Petrovich of the University of Oxford asked pre-school children about the origins of natural things such as plants and animals. She found they were seven times as likely to answer that they were made by God than made by people.<<

Hold on a moment... Surely they are neither 'made by God' nor 'made by people'

>>Trust me, there's just as many atheists in the countryside!

Both Islam and Catholicism are urban religions, no?

what do you mean by urban religion?
(or did you miss an 'e' off )

Rome - city. Mecca - city.

hmmmmmmmmm
but is mecca in islam directly comparable to rome in catholicism? Not the same concept is it?

Plus the location of the power base doesn;t really have much to impact the religion.

I can see that religions would have had a strong rural base in times past but that is more to do with poverty than anything else.

btw, I know someone somewhere posted about the 9yr old child who was raped and became pregnant and the cathlic church's response - but wasn't sure if it included the latest - which is that the catholic church is going to excommunicate all those involved in the abortion (except the child).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7926694.stm

The least they could have done would have been to turn a blind eye.

Kids are only natural believers because they'll pretty much believe anything you say. Simple untrained minds perfect for brainwashing.

A better test would be to tell some university professors of the 'God Exists' Hypothesis with the supporting 'evidence' (including evidence for ALL the gods that have or do supposedly exist) and watch them rip the hypothesis apart.

If a believer was to say part of their evidence for God existing is that kids can process this 'fact' then I would laugh in their face...kids believe in the tooth-fairy, monsters under the bed etc.

Hi Ed!

Perhaps Mary is thought to be more than honoured, but definitely less than a god. The Moses tablets proclaimed that Jews shall Honour their Mother and their Father. It is because Jesus was following that dictum that she held such influence over him in life.

The assumption of some Christian religions is that she continues to hold a special place with Jesus after her death, although I cannot think of any place in the Holy Bible that specifically claims that to be the case.

Are we saying that gods can develop habits that are hard to break?

>> It is because Jesus was following that dictum that she held such influence over him in life<<

Where in the gospels does it mention that she had any influence on his life. I recall the story that she went looking for him one day and found him in the temple teaching the rabbis. When she called him away he refused saying that he had to be about his fathers business.

I personally think that this story was corrupted by the church. If he was about his fathers business that day it's more likely that she found him in the Home Depot.

At first, I read:

"I recall the story that she went looking for him one day and found him in the temple teaching the rabbits."

Probably teaching them to not do what rabbits are famous for.

Noah with a clip board on the gang plank. "Two sheep, two goats, two camels, two rabbits,..no make that six rabbits,..no twelve,..no..MAKE THEM STOP DOING THAT."