h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

the argument that "meat is meat" doesn't cut any ice with me. Sure, at the end of it organic meat is as dead as any other meat - and I do wrestle with my vegetarian conscience over the fact that I eat any at all.

However, I would rather eat organic meat, poultry and eggs than support the factory farming method. And the more people do that, the less factory farming will happen.

Yes, people should know where meat comes from and how. But I don't accept that small kids should be shown bloody and violent videos without a warning to the parents first, and the option for the parents to say "nope, not with my kid"

I've never lied to my kids about meat, where it comes from and the fact that I used to be veggie and went back to meat eating (and boy do I get it in the neck from Gruesome #1 about that)

But I know that Gruesome #2 would have nightmares if she even saw chickens in a factory farm, let alone anything to do with bigger animals. she cries if we see an animal transporter on the autobahn.

"Political organisations like ALF and PETA send videos to schools for free as I understand it so the videos are likely to be biased."

Any chance of some backup on these accusations? I asked SWL for the name of the history book published by the Labour party, but have had nothing back yet. I'm sure it'll pop up soon, and I may seem pedantic, but your points would be a lot more striking if accompanied by some evidence.

Please don't take that as rudeness. I am in fact a deposed Nigerian political leader, desperate for a western bank account into which I can deposit millions of pounds sterling. For a number of years now I have been offering people half my fortune if they would only provide me with their bank details, but all to no avail. Trust me, I know all about scepticism, and how it hurts to be doubted. Please be assured I mean no offence.

Oh and STRANGELY STRANGE - "skelington"?

Sorry Offsoon. I've spoken to the missus about this and she can't remember the name of the book. The teacher involved was a prominent local Labour Party activist which was the main thrust of her complaint to the school, that this chap was bringing his politics into the classroom. The Headmaster denied this and said the textbook was supplied via the local authority.

I've searched the net and can find no other cases of this being reported. As I originally said, maybe this was a local thing but it would perhaps behove HooTooers with schoolkids to have a look at the textbooks in their schoolbags.

SWL, you are most obliging - it's really hard to ask for evidence without sounding like, well, a jerk, really, so thanks for trying, and not taking it the wrong way.

Offsoon.

I don't think you should worry about asking for evidence, Offsoon. I never think of people who do that as jerks. Otherwise people could post any old fairy story to back up their point of view. Of course I don't think anecddotes should always be dismissed, because sometimes its impossible to give hard evidence. But where it is possible and say if a researcher was continually posting anecdotes to support their viewpoint it is essential to at least challenge them to give some hard facts.

Oh dear.

Regardless of how chickens are treated, I would also not want my children to be shown such a graphic video. I know awful things happen in the world, but that doesn´t mean you should let your children see some of the horrors on the news either.

I agree completely Xanatic - I've spent seven years protecting my daughter from unpleasent images arriving down the tube - to think my hard work could be undone by someone I begrudgingly allow to educate her would be galling. I haven't got a plugged in tv. Instead the main computer (loaded with films, mp3's and documentaries and running through the stereo) is in the sitting room and is largely used instead. If she wants to watch something, she watches a nature documentary or Ray Mears. She's allowed her fun stuff too, but this usually consists of favourite movies, the Goodies and other programs I know the content of. This cuts out nasty surprises, and cuts down her viewing time - if she doesn't want to watch anything, she draws, reads, writes or listens to music instead.
It's not perfect, but it beats the **** out of Bratz and a million noisy pointless adverts.
And before anyone says I'm mollycoddling her against an aspect of the world which is unavoidable, I say no. It takes effort, but if you're willing to allow the images which enter your child's head to be dictated by mediamen and tv types who have no restraint then that makes you the sap, not me.
As an example I was round at somebodies house the other day (well before watershed) and there was a re-run of ER on the telly which detailed the experiences of a little girl who was suffering from cervical cancer due to having been taken to sex parties by her mother.

This was billed as entertainment. Nice. All of a sudden chicken killing documentaries seem less harmfull.

Please excuse the rant, lost it there for a while.

Offsoon, I believe, if I remember correctly, PETA were being interviewed on news several years ago for sending videos to schools on this subject and it was suggested that videos might be biased in their favour.
Again, if I remember correctly, they said the food industry could send their own videos to schools too.
.
I of course bow to your perfect spelling, although I personally avoid having a go at other posters' spelling as it may make me seem arrogant and they may have problems like Dyslexia.

children should be stimulated and tv shouldnt be a main part of the day. tv should be used as a treat or educational. however children are going to have to deal with the world at some point. if they get used to it a young age its not as traumatising. from as soon i can remember i watched the news as a kid. i hate it now because of wathing it so much then. i wasnt shielded from the facts which meant i was able to make my own decisions on issues. children are more resilent then we giove them credit for. if they are shielded from the world then it will hpset them when they inevitable see the world at an older age.

children have to be told what other humans are doing to the planet and to animals. they need to know what is happenening to make their own decisions on their actions. if we shild tem then nothin will change in the long term. they are the future. as long as the video shown are th facts anddone in an environment where there is support for children it affects then its fine. what age group was this shown to incidently?

oh and offsoon, do y censor the music your child listens to? if anything thats more harmful thn a few kids tv shows

"oh and offsoon, do y censor the music your child listens to? if anything thats more harmful thn a few kids tv shows"

Censoring music is more harmful than kids tv?

Or some music is more harmful than kids tv?

It's more or less academic - she likes classical, 90's trance and ambient and there are very few lyrics in any of those. It's unpleasent images and objectionable situations I've had enough of. If you are suggesting that a bit of swearing is going to cause my child to have palpitations then you're wrong. She's a good girl, and very rarely swears outside the house .

"i wasnt shielded from the facts which meant i was able to make my own decisions on issues."

Nor was I, and I continue to make my own decisions on issues. Such as, "Should I allow unknown individuals to broadcast unpleasent images and concepts into my own home?".

"children are more resilent then we giove them credit for. if they are shielded from the world then it will hpset them when they inevitable see the world at an older age."

I know. My girl is amazingly resiliant. I don't consider that I am shielding her from anything she needs to know. She knows that people kill each other for no good reason. She knows that on the whole empires are a bad thing. She knows that we raise animals in order to kill and eat them. She knows that if you pull on them too hard, stick insects legs come off. She knows that creationsts and scientists are good at telling stories. She knows that if we don't start looking after it, the planet will bite us on the arse. She knows lots of things, none of which are;

The details of the latest murders and rapes, lovingly described in the evening news.

The plotlines of brainless soaps about people being decidedly unpleasent to each other for your entertainment.

Adverts for horror films where you may not see much gore (because it's before bedtime) but the general flavour is enough to give you nightmares.

Call me a right wing fascist authoritarian, but I think selective viewing, the reading of books and other mental excercise a better preparation for life on this planet.

When you say the news prepared for the world, did you mean the planet we live on, or the world of the media? Because they are two completely different entities. And my little girl already knows that the papers and news services are biased and lie.

I am also biased. I also 'bend the truth' in the face of a truly awkward question. But then again, I'm pretty sure of my motives. Can you say the same of any news service?

>.She knows that creationsts and scientists are good at telling stories<< are you suggesting they are too different groups of people? can i suggest that y keep more up to date. science and creation are 2 sides of the same coin and both are correct.

>>When you say the news prepared for the world, did you mean the planet we live on, or the world of the media?<< im notsure i said that and therefore what you mean

I apologise profusely if I misread your post, but the sentence ;"i wasnt shielded from the facts which meant i was able to make my own decisions on issues." followed another about being allowed to watch the news. Again, I am sorry if I misunderstood.

"are you suggesting they are too different groups of people? can i suggest that y keep more up to date. science and creation are 2 sides of the same coin and both are correct."

Actually I think it's still a matter of opinion. That's why when she comes home from school asking me if god really made everything, I give her the other side of the story too, and allow her to choose the version she likes. As for "science and creation are 2 sides of the same coin and both are correct." I admire your ability to harmonise two apparently opposing viewpoints. My personal viewpoint is that they are both probably entirely wrong, only one is less entirely wrong than the other.

The choice about which one is less wrong is, of course, entirely down to your personal taste. Given that they are the concepts of a species of ape that shows as much restraint, forward planing and logic as a Toledo bull with a plug of ginger up it's a**e in a street jammed with people celebrating Chinese New Year, I'd say both were fairly questionable.

We should teach our children about what goes on in the world. But let us do it slowly, rather than just show them all the gory details right away. You sit your children down to teach them about the birds and the bees, you don´t hand them the latest x-rated movie with Jenna Jameson and tell them to go watch it.

As for science and creationism being two sides of the same coin; they are not even the same currency.

im a christian and a scientist. i believe the two sides fit together as do many of my friends.

"im a christian and a scientist. i believe the two sides fit together as do many of my friends."

Of course they fit together - as long as you EITHER believe mutually contradictory things (rare) or, much more likely and much easier, you simply pick and choose which bits of Christianity you believe, and which bits you reject as "obviously" "allegorical", "metaphorical", or in extreme cases, clearly just silly.

By your definition, therefore, *I* am a Christian too, as is every other human being on earth. We've just made a different choice than you about where to draw the line.

SoRB
Christian, apparently.

where in the bible does it tell you the mechanism to how everything was created? where in science does it tell you why?

i dont pick and choose which bits of christianity i believe in. i believe everything in the bible.

anyway, its beside the point, this thread is aout teaching children where meat comes from.

"i dont pick and choose which bits of christianity i believe in. i believe everything in the bible."



OK.

Simple, straightforward question then.

Which do you choose to believe were created first, men, or animals?

SoRB

One more, again a terribly simple question of straightforward fact: when Jesus was on the cross, what did the soldiers give him to drink?

SoRB

Traveller in Time pondering
"Biological produced chicken soup ? "