h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You mean I'm-a-dolly?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

az

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Because the films are never as good as the books, and Lucas has already messed up in his discription of the Clone Wars.

He needs to reread Timothy Zahn's Grand Admiral Thrawn trilogy and Hand of Thrawn Duology.

Mitt'raw'nuerodo is a much better leader and more interesting character than Palpatine and Vader combined.

>> Because the films are never as good as the books <<

Which books are these?

RF

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There are quite a few of them, but I think the best are the ones by Timothy Zahn:

Heir to the Empire (5 years after Endor)
Dark Force Rising (5 years after Endor)
The Last Command (5 years after Endor)

Spectre of the Past (10 years after Endor)
Vision of the Future (10 years after Endor)

Survivor's Quest (13 years after Endor)



Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Acadamy Trilogy is quite good as well:
Jedi Search (7 years after Endor)
Dark Apprentice (7 years after Endor)
Champions of the Force (7 years after Endor)

As I loath the films, I'm not really that interested, but I have to ask...what's Endor?

I get the feeling that the books have nothing to do with the films.

RF

Books are mostly after or before the films as far as I know. They're nothing special IMO, bog standard cheesy sci-fi that happens to do well because its set in the Star Wars universe. The games are where its at...

In Return of the Jedi, one of the moons of Endor has the shield generator thing and all the Ewoks. So after Endor probably means after the events in that film.

"Endor" = The Battle of Endor, depicted in the latter stages of the movie "Return of the Jedi".

The battle resulted in the defeat and death of Emperor Palpatine, the redemption and death of Anakin Skywalker, and the probable death of every single Ewok in the universe after the Rebel Alliance detonated a nuclear powered battle station over five hundred miles wide just above the atmosphere of their formerly-habitable world. So - a good outcome all round!

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

As I suspected. So LB's comment that Lucas should read books written by someone who takes as his basis...er...the universe, technological idiom and characters (presumably?) created by ...er...Lucas, is misguided, to put it politely?

RF

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No, because Zahn is a better writer than Lucas.

Lucas's plots leave a lot to be desired. Once the universe is in place, the creater of the universe isn't necesarrily the best writer.

Zahn writes better and creates better villins than Lucas. Lucas's villans are basicly just robots or so inherently evil as to not be human in any meaningful sence.

I still think Lucas should of hired the script writers at Bioware the company that created the Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic, the plot and characterisation in that, was far superior to anything in the Star Wars prequels.

Well, its funny you should say that now, but of Lucas evil characters:

The Hutts are motivated by greed.
Boba Fett is motivated by bitterness.
The Sith are mostly power addicts or just plain angry people.
Many Imperial lackeys are motivated by fear or just trained to be ruthless.
We see Luke being tempted to kill the Emperor.

Ok, its not great character depth, but its not quite being mean just for the sake of it.

As for Bioware, they have better scriptwriters and voice actors than those who work on the vast majority of films of any sort IMHO.

for now...

I've just watched 'A New Hope' today, the Special Edition, and I have to say that it is both better and worse than I remembered! The battle was longer and more tedious than I recalled, Leia is to use the immortal words of young Emma Watson in Harry Potter, reveling in the fun of being 'the only girl' (Aunt Beru is on screen for a few reaction shots to Luke and Owen Lars' discussion (she looks 90 years old) and maybe one other.
But Leia *does* do as you say, though the earphones hairdo, what's that about?

Yeah the story line to the Knights of the old Republic is brilliant. Im only an hour into the game (dont get much time to play it) But i seen my bro and mate do most of the game.

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I see your point; I really meant to say imperial characters--and there I do stanfd by it.

They're all either robots motivated by fear or orders--no critical thought--; or they're Sith/dark jedi, who are being controled by some sort of "evil presence", the Dark Side. After all, as soon as the Dark Side olst its grip on Vader, his behavior completely changed. Palpatine and Vadar aren't power-hungry, though that may be how Palpatine got into the dark side (it looks like Anakin got into it by honestly wanting to solve trhe galaxies problems, combined with an overestimate of his own abilities). Rather, they seem to be controled by an evil presence that makes them not really human.

None of his imperial characters have any depth--they're either robots obeying orders or controled by an evil influence.

And the nemoidians are really just obeying orders, too.

It never occured to Lucas that some Imperials might honestly support the empire for good (or at least reasonable) reasons. THey're all either pure evil, or robots motivated by fear or orders.

Tarkin might be different, but we barely get to see him.



There's no equivalent to Grand Admiral Thrawn, or Admiral Pelleon, or Admiral Daala, or Baron Fel, Major Teirce, or even really Grand Moft Dirsa.







BTW, it isn't clear from the IV-VI films that Fett has any motivation but profit, just like the Hutts. I'm not convinced that he didn't come up with that later on (very recently).

Thinking about it he probably nicked the Fett being a bitter angry guy thing from some of the books.

But come on, the Dark Side is all about power addiction. I mean, if you could shoot lightning from your fingers, everyone would at least give it at least a quick zap.

Lemon you also have Anakin being tutored by Palpatine secretly so he is probably being prepped for the dark side even by episode 2.

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Could be; I haven't read any of the books with Fett in them except the Young Jedi Knights ones, so I wouldn't know.



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I think that's one source of how people get into it. But not the only one--Anakin in the las movie seemed to seriously believe that he could fix everything and that he should do so. Trying to do that with the force leads you straight to the Dark Side, but not from power addiction, just from honestly wanting to fix a flawed galaxy.

Once your in, my understanding is that the Dark Side literally controls you. How else do you explain Vader suddenly becoming good because the Dark Side left him--if his behavior came from a personality trait like power adiction, it would take a long time for him to lose it, not five minutes.





And I agree about the lessons with Palpatine; that's probably where Ani got his undemocratic ideas, as well.

"I think that's one source of how people get into it. But not the only one--Anakin in the las movie seemed to seriously believe that he could fix everything and that he should do so. Trying to do that with the force leads you straight to the Dark Side, but not from power addiction, just from honestly wanting to fix a flawed galaxy."


Well demanding people accept your cure to this "flawed galaxy" and no other option is an evil dictatorship approach anyway. Can naturally progress to my way or else too easily.



"Once your in, my understanding is that the Dark Side literally controls you. How else do you explain Vader suddenly becoming good because the Dark Side left him--if his behavior came from a personality trait like power adiction, it would take a long time for him to lose it, not five minutes."


From how I saw it in the books the dark side dominatied not controlled you. Just tainted your actions slowly but surely so mistakes through anger, destruction, hate and pain creap in. So you then rely on the darkside evenmore to try and fix it and so on in one big vicious circle. Like an addiction and just as subtle.

Sometimes in breaking a vicious circle it can have an almost instaneious effect others it can take years to repair the dmaage to yourself. So I feel it is possible for him to revert back to his old self. I would personally think though it would leave more "hollowed" out. That point when you have been so angry and it just stops and leaves you breathless, empty, stunned through clarity. That is what I think breaking away from the dark side would feel like.

I think for many people it would be an external salvation from type thing. Like how people in desperate situations often convert to religions, join cults, or suddenly find some other ultimate purpose or messiah to dominate their lives.

Although what with it being a very Nietzschen social darwinist self-willed type creed maybe people that weak wouldn't get in to begin with.

Hmm, maybe Saturnine should be a Sith Lord .

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Yes, but it isn't necesarily the same as being power-hungry.





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I agree that it could be done quickly, but only because of its nature. It isn't a personality trait, like being power hungry is. Its something that dominates you and makes you act in ways you wouldn't act. Your motivations for your actions aren't really human--you're doing things because the dark side cycle leads you to do them.