h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

i agree with most of what you all say n it seems i might be the only one who is sticking up for the people who do you txt speak. i believe there is flexibility here. iv stated before i only abbreviate words like 'n' for and etc etc. i certainly wouldnt start abbreviating words that no-one understands cus whats the point in posting if no-one understands it? unless its a priv joke between 2 people.

theres only 1 commnt i need to make to a person n im not singling you out BOB. i can only get on here for a few mins at a time so there is certainly a place for abbreviating words if you havent got the time. theres lots of people who post here who are working. would you prefer for them not to post at all or maybe abbreviate a few words here or there so they can share what they feel?

i dont want this turning into 'us n them'. we are all members of this site n as long as things dont get out of hand theres no reason whatsoever that we cant all get along. regardless of how they speak n write.

i cant remember the researchers name now but the posting about how kids of today arent learning proper english. well i def agree with you there. it is getting out of hand specially if kids arent reading books but i see no evidence of kids who use txt alot who dont read books. i dont think theres a link there do you? unless you can provide evidence of this. im sure theres plenty of kids today who are txt addicts but also harry potter book addics as well.

i do think its a good way of communication tho. i dont go out much so my phone is a lifeline to me. alot of people might not understand that but if you didnt go out much or had much contact with people then sending txts to people is a great way of contact.

im not totally on the txt side here. i can n will write in the manner that most people on this site do already........

Diddy, no offence mate but when you say you only use a couple of abbreviations, you abbreviate a hell of a lot more than you realise

iv = ive
cus = because
priv = private
commnt = comment
def = definately

a few examples from that post...

'theres only 1 commnt i need to make to a person n im not singling you out BOB' Id say that was exactly singling me out mate, don't pretend not to if you are blatently doing it.

And as for people on h2g2 at work, where do you think I am right now?

Basically nobody minds a few abbreviations, spelling mistakes, etc. And I for one type how I write, not grammatically perfect English. But sometimes it goes too far.

I dont want to put anyone off this site, but a lot of us won't bother trying to translate a message left in some half-code, as we're at work and haven't the time...

Doh, that should say 'And I for one type how I speak' not 'And I for one type how I write'

although the latter is presumably true as well

i think the best example of this on ali g the movie, when he sms the guy out side and he reads it and its just a bunch of letter that he cant read

Grammar, good spelling, even using real words, all help the people reading what you've written. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's seen a huge block of unpunctuated, badly spelt or over abbreviated text and just not bothered to decode it.

Ok guys. I need to put my in here.

Txt speak on h2g2 is mainly used by digibox users.

For those who don't know, Telewest Communications are a cable company that have a digibox with interactive services. The interactive services are supposed to be limited to the sites provided on the box, but a few years ago, someone learnt HTML coding, and found their way via the BBC sites to h2g2.

This information was spread via a site called "Leisure District" which was an external site that provided a bunch of games as well as a chat room. About 2 years ago, it got really popular and had hundreds of people using it. To the point where it became overloaded and they had to come up with a new chat-specific site to replace it, that could handle the number of users it was coming into contact with.

Safe to say, this upset people. The new site was bound to be rubbish, and as LD was being closed down on the net as well as on the digibox, people got more upset. So, for some reason, all and everyone with functional email, transferred themselves over here.

(You're gonna hate me for saying this next bit)

On the whole, the people that tranferred themselves over (thanks to whoever decided to pass the link on) aren't the most intelligent, nor the most diverse. They consider this the replacement for the chatroom that they lost. Hence the txtspk. Luckily, they tend to stick to the areas they create, and don't socialise in the general h2g2 population. But they are the ones responsible for the colonies of rubbish. Not everyone who uses a digibox is like this; Loup D'Argent to begin with, although responsible for the mass tranference (AFAIK) is one of the most intelligent individuals I have ever met.

How do I know this?

I used to be one of them.

Diddy (sp?) made a grossly incorrect statement when she/he said that the Infra Red keyboards are substandard. They aren't. There is no reason (thanks to the plain skin) that a digibox user should be below the standards of a regular net user - unless their email messes access up.

In fact, the only reason why a digibox user should be providing less than usual standard of h2g2 contribution, is because they lack the intelligence to assimilate properly. I even wrote a Guide Entry or two whilst using the digibox.

And as a comment on the realm of txt speak in general - I hate it. But that's because I am an English Language purist.

Diddy - 'there is certainly a place for abbreviating words if you havent got the time'
Or be succinct. I've seen plenty of 'shorthand' postings that waffle on needlessly.

'i can n will write in the manner that most people on this site do already........'
I rather think you're actually in a minority in that style.

I agree that we shouldn't make assumptions about people from the look of their postings, but I also think contributors should make their postings as readable as possible to their intended audience. If that doesn't include me, fine.

BouncyBit, me too, I usually skim over anything that lacks capitals and punctuation and includes shorthand that isn't inuitive to read.

Count me in with the fuddy-duddies. While I can deal with limited txtspk (as long as the meaning is easily understood) I refuse to wade through extended posts written in that manner.

aNd 1 WoNt EvEn LoOk At PoStS wRiTtEn WiTh ThE F*cK*D uP CaPiTaLiZaTiOnS. They're just not worth my time and effort.

Are the "alternative" writing styles nothing but a minor annoyance in the greater scheme of life? Absolutely. But they're a minor annoyance I choose to avoid. If that makes me an elitist snob, I guess that's just the way it is.

*Wanders away shaking her head at the thought of submitting a resume written in txtspk. Must not want a job very badly!*

at generalisations...

Txtspk is not just used by digibox users...

It is also used in other languages and i've noticed it being very _heavily_ used on a french site... So, unless we have a colony of telewesters in France that i didn't know about, digibox users are not the only ones using txtspk on the net...



loup

I think [actually i'm sure] that i've commented on the use of txtspk in some other threads already... What i've said at the time is still relevant now: people using txtspk as an habit from [_any_] other chat sites do tend to drastically reduce its use after a while...

That is as long as the other people communicating with them don't use txtspk as well...

So, it's not necessairily lazyness but mainly a bad habit, that's all...



loup

PS: if some words have disappeared from my postings [and i noticed in the subject line as well]... It's due to the filtering program[s] in my PC's system being over-zealous... about that... I'm trying to rectify this problem and thought i've sorted it out... but obviously not..

I super hate it. There is no respect to language any more. Nothing makes sense and a lot is incomprehensible. Maybe that is what they are taught in school nowdays ?? ;o(

Hmm. I don't have any problem with abbreviations where theres a reason (limited number of characters, awkward input device etc.)
Outside of that I don't mind so long as there are no practicle problems, I have never really understood aesthetics in the english launguage or anything else for that matter.* As long as people get their message across.

My problem comes when the meaning of the message is lost, or harder to decipher. Full english has the advantage that if one word missing or misspelt then you con generally understand the sentance anyway. With the minimum number of characters the writer cannot make any mistakes and the reader has to read and comprehend every abbreviation, more awkward than it sounds if your used to skim reading tomes (read textbooks).

I think the solution is to classify these as sublaunguages. We already have English(uk) and English(american). Why not English(txt), English(computer), English(geek), English(music) and so on. That way employers could say things like all CVs in English(full) and purists could filter h2g2 threads by launguage.

* - If someone could explain this to me I'd be much obliged.

"* - If someone could explain this to me I'd be much obliged."

D'you mean the aesthetics in the English Language part, or the 'anything else' part.

If it's the former, I can try. There are a group of very-set-in-their ways English academics, who are even more pedantic about their Mother Tongue than we here on h2g2 are. They are trying, and failing quite rapidly to form the English Academy, the Anglicised equivalent of the notorious L'Acadamie Francais, who try to preserve the 'purity' of the French Language. One of their main standpoints is on the 'natural aesthetics' of the language, which is a pretty meaningless term.

They are failing, incidentally, because English, being the primary international language, is accepting additions from abroad as rapidly as it has always done, and so there is - and has never been - much 'purity' to maintain. English is the closest natural equivalent to Esperanto.

B

Loup -

*presents butt*

this you liberal Frenchie

I know I am right. I spent a lot longer in the general furore of LD than you did (and I have no wish to go back, may I add). I'm not saying that ALL digibox users are responsible. But 99% of them are the culprits. To the point where, when people discovered I used a digibox, they made a point of exclaiming how suprised they were. If there was a specific movement to not only transfer people onto this site, but also EDUCATE them in the ways and wherefores and etiquette of the site, chances are the levels of txtspeak on the site would drop.

I am certainly not saying that every digibox user is a buffoon. Nor that they alone possess the habit. Just simply that they are the main culprits of the annoying crime on the site.

As was mentioned earlier, the english language has a tendency to evolve and change. This is fair enough, as often it has made things more succinct, or more uniform or clearer and thus easier to read.

The problem with txtspk as I see it (and as was also mentioned by someone else) is that it _doesn't_ make things easier to read. In fact, it's often the opposite. It's not an evolution of the language. It's kind of like a virus (though this last just may be my bias coming to the fore).

As mentioned before, txtspk is fine, as long as it's between two consenting persons and in the right places (chat rooms, IMs, mobile phones). Just keep it away from me.

I agree that the use of textspeak(rebelling by even spelling it correctly now) is different on instant messaging, there someone can easily reply by saying, "what did you mean"?. I personally find it annoying when people send me text messages in textspeak, but I seemed to have weaned my friends off it.

The fact is that it is difficult to understand if you don't use it on a regular basis. If it is used regularly on this site then the majority of people who don't understand it are going to stay away and not read it, thus leading to an us and them situation.

Just a little aside....

There's a fantastic little book called The Book of Pages by David Whiteland.... Here's a quote from it. Jiriki, a Zen Buddhist monk, goes to a fast food shop:

"Any flavour, any texture, available while-U-wait: until now, Jiriki had never kown urgency so great that there's no time to spell "you" with all three letters..."

After reading this, I never abbreviated my text messages again.

deemikay

Bob

i wasnt singling you out i also said further down in my posting that i forgot the researchers name who mentioned about kids who use txt speak dont read books. i havent got the facility to copy n paste bits out to make my point as it seems most people have.
oh i didnt abbreviate comment but i'll explain about that next.

saturnine

maybe its not the keyboard thats substandard but the actual software that telewest uses. if you still use telewest then you will know that the keyboard locks quite frequently. dont take my word for it ask around. iv also stated i dont have much time so i dont go to preview first but tell me who does on every posting? especially if they write alot.

i find it hard to believe that people are against postings with a few abbreviations etc. if i wanted to i could go n read loads of postings n copy n paste when im on a pc n show you them. but im not petty.

teasswill

well if im in the minority in the style of writing i have im very sorry iv offended you or anyone. i just think its a shame that theres people on here who are judging or even missing out whole posting cus of a few abbreviations here or there.

iv not been on here that long but there have been times that iv spent ALOT of time reading postings n it seems that there are people on here who have taken great offence to new people coming on here who write or are a bit different to the researchers already on here.

iv read the stats on this site.. well over 100,000 researchers have joined since it started. iv read on another thread that there are now only around 7,000 active researchers now. so where has everyone disappeared to? either there are loads of researchers who dont like the new influx of people coming in or maybe some of the new people coming on havent been made to feel welcome enough.

one thing i will say is no-one will make me leave. i shall continue to make postings in the style i write.

maybe if we all got along n overlooked these quite small problems then MAYBE more people will want to join n actually stay.

i just think its a great shame that people are taking great offence ot this. iv already stated that if there are postings that are full of txt speak then that isnt very acceptable.

if i can change my style completely from txt speak to a few abbreviations then im sure that there will be some of you who can compromise on this.

what do you think?

Diddy!

No compromise. I stand firm on this. It grates my teeth, and I despise it. As I said earlier - people can do better. And if they don't have the time or will to try, I don't have the time or will to care.

And for the record - yes, I'm biased. As has been mentioned previously. I don't think it's too much to ask that people at least attempt to make an effort to communicate properly, especially in a forum such as this, where the written word makes all the difference.