h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Now, I've always been of the belief that there is far too much councilling and analysis in this world. For many people the best way of getting over something is their own way. For some councilling may be the best way, but it shouldn't be an automatic response.

It appears that scientific studies are backing me up, reading through an old New Scientist from last month, a study showed that many people, when randomly alloted councilling or not after a traumatic event, came out worse with the councilling. For many it seems, the best way of dealing with trauma is to talk it over with family and friends, or to lock it away until they are ready to talk about it. But the current prevalent attitude is that it is 'good to talk'...

So, opinions, people... Let the debate begin...

The problem with most counselling these days, is that it just blames your problems on other people - your parents, generally, or traumas from a former life. People hate taking responsibility for their own problems, and this is becoming more and more prevalent as life becomes easier. Which seems odd, but let's face it, we're not living through a blitz and having our food rationed.

My mum is a good example - she went to counselling, the doctor she saw was from Sri Lanka. She said to him; 'you're not going to be very good, because my problems will seem piddling to you, because you're from a war torn country' (not an exact quote, but you get the gist). And that's exactly it. It's all relative, people need to get real.

*gets right on high horse *

Life is sh!t, deal with it. Examine yourself, realise truly whether with problems, the blame lies with somebody else, or if it's just your perception that's twisted. Be brutally honest with yourself. It's okay to have nasty thoughts - the bad thing is when you give them growth.

Every single person has bad things happen to them. People say 'oh well you've _never_ had things as bad as me' - how do you know? You have to get on with life, otherwise you'll stay sad, you'll not bother with life, and more bad things will happen.

Says me, and since the last paragraph I've just read an email from a friend who's accused me of inviting her out with another friend at the weekend purely because she mentioned she hadn't been invited. When she knows I invite her for everything anyway. I don't understand. I don't understand why people choose to blame me (you, other people) and twist things around so it's somebody else's fault when they know deep down it's not. They choose to blame you just because they feel bad about something else. What? I don't know. I don't get the chance to know. You try to help by saying what's really wrong, and it's apparently the thing you've done. And now I'm just ranting/crying/purging on here so I'll stop.

I can't comment on Post Traumatic Stress, because I've never been through any wars, bombs etc.

Don't rely on anybody else. The only person you can rely on is yourself, and then you can't blame anybody else when things go wrong.

"Things can always be worse"

"Change what you cannot accept, and accept what you cannot change."

"Change what you cannot accept, and accept what you cannot change."

And learn to accept change



I think it's always a good idea for people involved in traumatic events to be *offered* counselling - like you say it works for some people and some people don't have the home/social network that will allow them to get over an event. But there should be much more emphasis on the fact that counselling is there *if* you want it and not this bulk management of trauma-victims. Better to give information about how/where to get help if someone needs it than to force everyone to fit into a "normal" box.

And even if you *do* accept counselling, there are good counsellors and bad ones. I remember a programme a few years ago that was basically trying to question the whole 'counselling for post-traumatic stress' thing. They spoke to the wife of a man who had had some traumatic experience (can't remember what) and who's employers sent him for counselling. According to the wife, the sessions were at fixed intervals. In the interval between sessions the man would start to recover and get back to normal. After each session he would come back stressed and would wake up screaming with nightmares brought on by being made to relive the experience during the session.

It *can* be good to talk, and one reason for the increase in 'therapists' is because we no longer have large family groups to talk to and share our troubles with. But the 'talking' has to be in a person's own good time, not when employers / 'experts' think it should be. Some people prefer to deal with a bad experience on their own. In some cases, if it was a really bad experience, people try to blank it out until they can cope with it. It's up to them to decide if (or when) they are ready to talk about it.

That's my . I've never had an experience that's bad enough to require 'counselling' afterwards. I hope I never will. But if I do, I'd like to be allowed to decide for myself whether counselling really is required. I'd like to think that Richard will be my main source of support in getting over something that bad.

Councilling isn't as wildly available or as readily given out as you seem to percieve...
Talking therapies aren't about finding someone to blame for you problems they are about finding new positive ways to deal with them...

I really can't be bothered to waste more of my life spending time confronting the ignorance that leads to something Queegle little speach...

If I've appeared ignorant, I do apologise.

In my 'speech', I'm purely talking about people who have no real mental problems. Obviously people with real mental problems have a different perspective on things. Everybody is different.

Bob's question appeared to be to just be about counselling normal people (I'm not saying people with mental problems are *not* normal), which is what I addressed.

I do believe that whatever problem you have, unless you've tried absolutely everything to solve it, you can't absolve yourself of responsibility for it. We are capable of counselling ourselves. 99% of people are in control of their own mind.

This is what I believe at the moment. I could be wrong. Self discovery is a journey that I don't think has an end.

As I said, Stealth, for many counselling (I knew I was spelling it wrong, honest) is beneficial, and even necessary. What I am questioning is the wholesale, 'it's good to talk' attitude...

I'm largely in agreement with queegle, and I too have never been through any kind of event which could result in PTSD.

I have however been through some counselling - firstly as part of a group, secondly on a one-to-one basis. The group sessions were pretty much useless - it seemed to be all about getting us to dredge up something from our childhood and then have a good cry. The one-to-one was very good though. It gave me a foundation on which to build a way to help myself when I need it, and it was based pretty much on 'You can rely on no-one but yourself, and you shouldn't get upset about anything you can't control'. If I didn't no better, I'd swear that the therapist was trying to convert me to Buddhism (or make me like Mr Spock).

Perhaps there is a case for people needing more counselling these days after distressing events. Society has changed a lot in the past thirty or fourty years and many of us have rejected the forms of support which folks used to rely upon - mostly, close families and religion. Never having met anyone who's been through some kind of trauma and then counselling I have no idea what the counsellors say to them. If they receive the same kind of counselling I got during my one-to-one sessions, it can do them nothing but good. If it's just someone sitting there and saying 'There there, let it all out', I reckon that's pretty useless in the long term.

Everyone's different.

Everyone's reaction to a situation, or a trauma, will be different.

And every counsellor will have a different approach.

I used a counsellor once to get over something that happened in my childhood. It was OK, and I learned that just putting into words (spoken or written) what I was feeling was very useful.

Since then I use my close friends and an occasional diary entry for this purpose. And liberal applications of Chardonnay.

My sister still sees a counsellor regularly and swears it has changed her life.
Other acquaintances say they found it a waste of time.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice

Sorry to be flippant here but, has anyone else noticed that;
Therapist = The-rapist

well personally iv found my psychologist to be a wonder for helping me with my probs. early in my life i suffered sexual abuse n went onto drugs n other things cus of it n there was no way could i bring myself to talk about it with family n friends so the psychologist was a last resort for me but i find talking to a stranger who knows nothing about you is easier for me rather than family n friends. the people i dont like who are there to 'help' are psychiatrists. all theyre interested in doing is giving you any prescription drug n getting rid of you quickly. absolutely vile people.

Diddy!

Its a difficult subject, I was sexually abused by my father between the ages of 11 and 16. I am now 32 and I find it very difficult to deal in people situations, I am basically scared of people and don't trust them. I guess you could say that is my decision, afterall the abuse has now stopped so what is there to be upset about anymore.

My problem is, growing up like that distorts your view of how the world works. It meant I then made like a slag, well if you are trained to lie back and think of england from an early age its something you can continue with. This ended up in yet more abuse and also a rape.

So now I'm a bit of a mess. Sometimes talking helps, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I just want to live normally and not remember everything that happened, I can do that for a while, but it always comes back.

The only help I have been offered is a psychotherapist at £32 an hour, well I don't work so I couldn't afford it. I did another one whilst at uni, but all she wanted to talk about was my masturbation habits how that was meant to help, I do not know, after 2 sessions I never went back.

I saw a psychosexual therapist once, as you may imagine I have some sexual problems after all that, she said what my dad did has nothing to do with my life today. Well, some people may agree with that, it is afterall down to choice. But I disagree, I think the person I am now is completely tainted by what happened.

I would welcome the chance to be sorted one day, but I will not be opening myself up to a counsellor again. Thats my choice, I know they can help, you just have to get the right one.

It can be good to talk, but not to be judged by someone who has no idea what you have been through. Talking to someone who wilfully misunderstands is no help. I managed to accept quite a difficult assessment of myself once, but I didn't need it slapped at me in the form of an insult. Therapists can be helpful if they choose to be, they need to moderate their behaviour to suit the person, some are bullish, some are delicate, thats not a defect in the person, its just accepting that people are different.

Two people can go through the same trauma, one needs help the other doesn't, that doesn't mean one person is right and the other is wrong, it just means two people will deal in different ways.

Maybe if you need help its because you have held on the abuse, but who said it is easy to let go of it. Abuse at 11 forms the person you become, it becomes a part of you, it isn't easy to throw it off no matter how much you want to.

Because I still find it very difficult to cope with, I have been labelled a failure, but I believe I am a survivor, as people have committed suicide for less, I stayed alive and now I enjoy my life, although I may find your life far too challenging. That doesn't make me a failure. I can judge myself, I do not have the right to judge anyone else.

There have also been many cases of peole dealing with stuff and letting it go, only to be axed down with it later in life, there is no right way for everyone. The way of coping will change from person to person and also throughout the persons life.

anyone who is alive after being abused is a survivor.......

it is how we cope afterwards that counts

if talking helps, that is a good thing,but no- one can really understand what you have been through, so you just get on with it and cope the best you can........

living is the best revenge


Hel2

Please familiarize yourself with what PTS is, before opening your mouths to comment... most everyone's ignorance is showing. You can not possible debate an issue that you know nothing about.

http://www.ncptsd.org/

"PTSD: The symptoms
Most people who are exposed to a traumatic, stressful event experience some of the symptoms of PTSD in the days and weeks following exposure, but the symptoms generally decrease over time and eventually disappear. However, about 8% of men and 20% of women go on to develop PTSD, and roughly 30% of these individuals develop a chronic form that persists throughout their lifetimes.

Three clusters of symptoms are associated with PTSD:

Re-experiencing of the traumatic event:

Recurring nightmares
Intrusive daydreams or flashbacks
Dissociative experiences
Intensification of symptoms upon exposure to reminders of the event
Avoidance or numbing:

Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, activities, or situations associated with the trauma
Feelings of detachment or alienation
Inability to have loving feelings
Hyper-arousal:

Exaggerated startle response
Insomnia and other sleep disturbances
Irritability or outbursts of anger
Physiological reactions to exposure to reminders of the event
Related Disorders:
PTSD often occurs in conjunction with related disorders and symptoms, including:

Depression and feelings of guilt and hopelessness
Substance abuse
Disillusionment with authority
Problems with memory and cognition
Functional Impairment:
PTSD often results in the impairment of the person's ability to function in social or family situations. Such problems include:

Occupational instability
Marital problems and divorces
Discord with family and friends
Difficulties in parenting
The course of chronic PTSD usually involves periods of symptom increase followed by remission or decrease, although for some individuals symptoms may be unremitting and severe.

Common Components of PTSD Treatment:
Treatment for PTSD typically begins with a detailed evaluation, and development of a treatment plan that meets the unique needs of the survivor. Generally, PTSD-specific-treatment is begun only when the survivor is safely removed from a crisis situation. For instance, if currently exposed to trauma (such as by ongoing domestic or community violence, abuse, or homelessness), severely depressed or suicidal, experiencing extreme panic or disorganized thinking, or in need of drug or alcohol detoxification, addressing these crisis problems becomes part of the first treatment phase.

Educating trauma survivors and their families about how persons get PTSD, how PTSD affects survivors and their loved ones, and other problems that commonly come along with PTSD symptoms. Understanding that PTSD is a medically recognized anxiety disorder that occurs in normal individuals under extremely stressful conditions is essential for effective treatment.
Exposure to the event via imagery allows the survivor to reexperience the event in a safe, controlled environment, while also carefully examining their reactions and beliefs in relation to that event.
Examining and resolving strong feelings such as anger, shame, or guilt, which are common among survivors of trauma
Teaching the survivor to cope with post-traumatic memories, reminders, reactions, and feelings without becoming overwhelmed or emotionally numb. Trauma memories usually do not go away entirely as a result of therapy, but become manageable with new coping skills.
Therapeutic Approaches Commonly Used to Treat PTSD:
Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) involves working with cognitions to change emotions, thoughts, and behaviors. Exposure therapy, is one form of CBT unique to trauma treatment which uses careful, repeated, detailed imagining of the trauma (exposure) in a safe, controlled context, to help the survivor face and gain control of the fear and distress that was overwhelming in the trauma. In some cases, trauma memories or reminders can be confronted all at once ("flooding"). For other individuals or traumas it is preferable to work gradually up to the most severe trauma by using relaxation techniques and either starting with less upsetting life stresses or by taking the trauma one piece at a time ("desensitization").
Along with exposure, CBT for trauma includes learning skills for coping with anxiety (such as breathing retraining or biofeedback) and negative thoughts ("cognitive restructuring"), managing anger, preparing for stress reactions ("stress inoculation"), handling future trauma symptoms, as well as addressing urges to use alcohol or drugs when they occur ("relapse prevention"), and communicating and relating effectively with people ("social skills" or marital therapy).

Pharmacotherapy (medication) can reduce the anxiety, depression, and insomnia often experienced with PTSD, and in some cases may help relieve the distress and emotional numbness caused by trauma memories. Several kinds of antidepressant drugs have achieved improvement in most (but not all) clinical trials, and some other classes of drugs have shown promise. At this time no particular drug has emerged as a definitive treatment for PTSD, although medication is clearly useful for the symptom relief that makes it possible for survivors to participate in psychotherapy.
Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) is a relatively new treatment of traumatic memories which involves elements of exposure therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy, combined with techniques (eye movements, hand taps, sounds) which create an alteration of attention back and forth across the person's midline. While the theory and research are still evolving with this form of treatment, there is some evidence that the therapeutic element unique to EMDR, attentional alteration, may facilitate accessing and processing traumatic material.
Group treatment is often an ideal therapeutic setting because trauma survivors are able to risk sharing traumatic material with the safety, cohesion, and empathy provided by other survivors. As group members achieve greater understanding and resolution of their trauma, they often feel more confident and able to trust. As they discuss and share coping of trauma-related shame, guilt, rage, fear, doubt, and self-condemnation, they prepare themselves to focus on the present rather than the past. Telling one's story (the "trauma narrative") and directly facing the grief, anxiety, and guilt related to trauma enables many survivors to cope with their symptoms, memories, and other aspects of their lives.
Brief psychodynamic psychotherapy focuses on the emotional conflicts caused by the traumatic event, particularly as they relate to early life experiences. Through the retelling of the traumatic event to a calm, empathic, compassionate and non-judgmental therapist, the survivor achieves a greater sense of self-esteem, develops effective ways of thinking and coping, and more successfully deals with the intense emotions that emerge during therapy. The therapist helps the survivor identify current life situations that set off traumatic memories and worsen PTSD symptoms.
Psychiatric disorders commonly co-occurring with PTSD
Psychiatric disorders commonly co-occurring with PTSD include: depression, alcohol/substance abuse, panic disorder, and other anxiety disorders. Although crises that threaten the safety of the survivor or others must be addressed first, the best treatment results are achieved when both PTSD and the other disorder(s) are treated together rather than one after the other. This is especially true for PTSD and alcohol/substance abuse.

Complex PTSD
Complex PTSD (sometimes called "Disorder of Extreme Stress") is found among individuals who have been exposed to prolonged traumatic circumstances, especially during childhood, such as childhood sexual abuse. Developmental research is revealing that many brain and hormonal changes may occur as a result of early, prolonged trauma, and contribute to difficulties with memory, learning, and regulating impulses and emotions. Combined with a disruptive, abusive home environment which does not foster healthy interaction, these brain and hormonal changes may contribute to severe behavioral difficulties (such as impulsivity, aggression, sexual acting out, eating disorders, alcohol/drug abuse, and self-destructive actions), emotional regulation difficulties (such as intense rage, depression, or panic) and mental difficulties (such as extremely scattered thoughts, dissociation, and amnesia). As adults, these individuals often are diagnosed with depressive disorders, personality disorders or dissociative disorders. Treatment often takes much longer, may progress at a much slower rate, and requires a sensitive and structured treatment program delivered by a trauma specialist. "

When seeking help for PTS, make sure the therapist is trained to handle those issues. Not all therapists are. Remember the best counselors are those who have experienced a similar trauma. That is way the best rape counselors have been raped themselves. In addition to counseling, find a support group of people who have had similar traumas. Again, friends and family can be well-meaning, but they do not have the same experience to share and can only be condescending.

Just get over it! doesn't work.

A PTS Survivor

I only needed to read the first to lines of that post in order to respond, I don't need to read the rest, as Richenda, you seem to have decided to get offended before reading ours. Had you done so, you would have noticed that me, and others, have commented on general counselling, but have specifically said

"... can't comment on PTS as ... haven't experienced it"

So we've said we can't comment on it, and still get accused of ignorance

Chill. And well done on being such a strong person that you've got through to the other side

"Just get over it" isn't The answer, I know, but what else can you do?

I would love to hear some feedback on what I said, please nothing abusive though, I have had enough of that in my life! Queeglesproggit, any thoughts? I have appreciated what you have said so far.

Hey Kaz, the only reason I don't appear to comment on personal problems is that I haven't lived through your situation. As I was saying to Richenda - I don't presume to have the answer to any problems I haven't dealt with myself. Even then I wouldn't state my answer as the correct one, because everybody is different.

You seem to be doing the best you can to help yourself, and that's great. Labels mean nothing, who is labelling you? Other people? Society? Are they perfect? Of course not. Nobody is. Like you said, you can't judge other people, and they can't judge you.

People do take umbridge at my "just get over it". You have to, else you're spend your life in misery. As I said, what else is there?

People look for an answer. As far as I've found, there isn't one. So you have to accept what is past and concentrate on the next day.

I have to say that whenever I had had counselling it has been for a specific problem and it has always worked well for me. I think I just have the mindset where it is helps to get a wider perspective.

I hate the 'Just get over it' attitude with regard to mental health, because I can remember points in my life where I just didn't have the mental strength to move forward from the point I was. I remember having a panic attack in Charing Cross and being physically unable to do anything then cry. So there I was, stuck in a coffee shop. In the end, IanG had to come and find me.

Adam Ant made an interesting point in the documentary about him last night. People normally live life from month to month, year to year, people with severe depression live life from second to second.

Queeglesproggit, do give the rest of Richenda's post a go, it goes a long way toward explaining why survivors of trauma and/or abuse deal with the issues that they do. It doesn't state opinions, only some of the facts. We're just trying to help you understand, if you want to.

If I don't do well with this reply, if I come off sounding defensive or anything, I don't intend to. I hope you can understand how hurtful some of the things you've said might be, even if you didn't intend them to be. I usually run away and hide when I feel attacked or vulnerable, but I'm not trying to attack your viewpoint, only trying to share mine in hopes you might understand how some people might be feeling. Though I personally don't hold others accountable for my feelings, only myself, I do hope that they can understand and be sensitive toward them.


I won't get into personal experiences much, unless you'd like me to. No two people will react the same way to the same thing. It's been said before by Richenda, Kaz, myself, and others, it's not what's happened to you as much as how badly it's hurt you. It's not a matter of not wanting to get over things, or wanting to be miserable. It's a matter of coping with things the only way you've learned how. The way the brain copes with fear, with threats to one's safety, with pain, is to do whatever it has to in order to avoid those things. In survivors of abuse and/or trauma, that fight-or-flight mechanism seems to be much more prononced- it *has* to be, you see.

I can only speak for myself, but accepting (or coping, anyway) with what is past and concentrating on the next day is exactly what I do want! The problem lies in that for most vistims of abuse, experience has taught you that it's going to happen again. All of the symptoms, all of the self-defeating behaviors, etc., are a defensive technique used to avoid being hurt or traumatised again.

I personally take umbridge with the words "get over it" because they reinforce the belief I have that I deserved what I got, I ought to take it on the chin and just accept it. I can't do that, and I will not apologise for it. All I can do is try to find ways to not let history repeat itself; to cope with the pain I've been through, find ways to put an end to self-defeating and self-abusive behaviors, and try to strive for a better and even happy future. It's all any of us are trying to do. And if therapy can help anyone get there, then no-one should begrudge them the need to seek and get it.