h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It certainly would AFFECT the population. I did mean effect as in put into practice. We've seen mass lay offs when a firm has closed/relocated/become mechanised. This is a sudden crisis for those people.
The topic I was relating to was that off the suggestion that gradually we would all work fewer hours & have more leisure time. This is what I was envisaging would be implemented more slowly. I'm all in favour of keeping work available to suit each person's abilities, as I said earlier.

PS Only teasing about mobiles - I know they can literally be a life saver. I just don't like the way our lives have changed, that people expect communication to be instant. The way people sit texting while in company can sometimes appear rather rude too.

I don't think it really is something we have to worry about in our lifetime because robots would not be accepted by most of society. Most people base their ideas on what they have seen in movies, on t.v. or read in fiction books. The idea of robots or computers taking over the world, like the latest movie trend The Matrix, that is what people see happening.I have talked to people in their 60's or 70's who are afraid of computers and won't have anything to do with them, I don't see them going for a robot garbage man and I no in the U.S. they have a very strong political influence.


p.s. I agree about people sitting there playing with their cell phones or PDA. It drives me crazy everytime I see someone walking around with their headset for their cellphone on grabbing away, I just want to rip it out of their ears. I went to lunch with someone the other week who did nothing but talk on their phone.

That is rude To meet someone for lunch and listen to them talk on the phone.

I am hopelessly out of step and OK with it.
I hate phones, I have no cell phone. They are good when they're good but mostly it's an irritation I do not want more exposure to.

I think there seems to be a knee jerk reaction against the reduction of drudge work based upon some fundamental misunderstandings of how it works over time.

While I agree that someone getting laid of due to company shrinkage of the labour pool can have a negative effect, this is largely because as a society we have not yet really adjusted to the lack of a job for life.

this can't go on much longer, because it is causing serious problems which are not sustainable.

having a problem with leaving your job can be a problem for a number of reasons, mostly due to bad value judgements about the job. if you value yourself because of the job, it will eventually cause you problems. if you have the job just to feed the kids, you will have problems. if you have the job because you are too unqualified to get another one, you will have problems.

the solution is not to say keep the drudge work. it is to realign how you think about your own worth and your life.

value yourself for yourself.
learn more so you are not trapped without skills.
have the job to feed the kids, but save anough so you are not dependent on it, and use those new skills to get a better paying job that you enjoy more.
explore different hobbies, youcan often find that you enjoy one of them a lot, and make a job out of it.

and finally, very few people are so thick that they cannot do anything creative. most people can sing, or play an instrument, or tell a story, or write a computer program, or any of hundreds of other creative things you can do.

keep an open mind and explore the possibilites and it will seriously enrich your life.

California B., I think people have a misconception of AI when they talk about 'robot garbage men'. AI is already in control of many aspects of our lives, albeit in a modest form. It's like 'smart washing machines' that weigh the contents of the drum assess how dirty the clothes are & adjust the water or detergent input accordingly. OK, not exactly using it's intiative, it's all programmed in, but I'm sure there are systems that 'think for themselves' all around us already. It won't be robot refuse collectors, it will be more like an automated rubbish disposal unit.

Xroth, creativity is not related to intelligence. Some people are highly creative & hardly at all. I don't think it can be learnt, although you can learn to make the most of your talents. Yes, we can all improve ourselves, or help those less able to enhance their skills. But for those in a downward spiral it may be easier said than done.

But aren't we talking about AI that will do the mundane jobs we hate? That's a lot more than what we have now! I don't think the smart washing machine is the same I know it's a step towards it, but it's not same.

CA

Hi Teasswill,

<>

Ah ha! They have just finished installing such a system here in the centre of Seville. Now instead of having their rubbish collected people put their rubbish into one of these units, close the door, turn a handle and WHOOSH! the rubbish is sucked away to . . . somewhere.

Unfortunately, whoever designed these units did not seem take into account that they would be installed all around the largest conserved (and amazingly beautiful) old centre of any European city. They are hideous. Big ugly dark grey metal things that look like they should be on a Star Wars set and not in the middle of the Barrio Santa Cruz. Apparently when they installed this same system in Barcelona the city council had attractive covers made for the units so that they blended in better with the environment.

And weirdly, almost everyone I know who first sees these things says - 'hey, that would be a perfect way to dispose of body parts.'

az

ps
I LOVE my mobile phone, actually. Don't know how I ever lived without one now. I mostly need it to receive business related calls when I am not at home (or when I'm online hootooing as I don't have broadband). Also, I am prone to panic attacks, and I find it comforting to have my trusty mobile with me at all times - in case I start going I can always call a friend to help 'talk me down'.

Hi!

Thinking what a long way we've come from the original question - and thought of the issue of 'good manners'.
I was singing (with a local choir) at a wedding this afternoon. Being on show, we do dress respectably & follow the service. The bellringers sometimes only arrive during the last hymn, but today were there at the beginning, in very casual clothes. They will be mostly out of sight, so that's OK, but they sat at the back & talked on & off all through the service - including the vows & us singing (we sit at the back too). Now that I call bad manners.

Thank You! I thought we were slightly off it too!

I think part of the problem is most people are so concerned with themselves they fail to be concerned with anyone else.

Certainly seems like it sometimes.

but that's how people are most of the time anyhow, isn't it? which is why certain social constructs are probably quite necessary - cos we are at heart a selfish bunch of gits.

yes or no?

az

But truly selfish people will disregard social constructs anyway!

Not if they somehow gain something from them, like being accepted by others.

I do think we are all somewhat selfish. The key is realizing when you are being that way and trying to correct your behavior. I know I can be selfish, I was an only child never had to share, but I know it and I consciencelessly make an effort not to be that way.

I think if people know their faults they might be more willing to change them? or atleast I hope they would.

CA

right, 2 points to address.

first, creativity. I have never yet met anyone who has tried to be more creative, and who has failed. admittedly they sometimes have to search for the subject where they can let their creativity out, but the same could be said for trying to find a job you don't hate.

second, selfishness. it is not necessarily a bad thing, but some of the ways it expresses itself can be.

I quite happily admit to being extremely selfish. however it is not the sort that california blond mentioned. there is a thing called the principle of enlightened self interest. this entails working in a way which looks like altruism, but is actually helping others in sucha way that both youand them benefit from the work you put in.

the best example of it working has to be linux.

Ugh. Read backlog. Going offline for another week (minimum)

Oh well I'll do my best.

The point of AI is that it is as capable as a human, thus there is no reason to belive that it would replace mundane jobs first, you are talking about computers taking human jobs not AIs.

The removal of unskilled jobs is only a problem in a society which rewards the amount a person contributes rather than the amount of effort a person puts in attempting to contribute. In such a system people who are only capable of unskilled jobs (and I don't belive there is anyone truely not able to so something important somewhere) will always lose out, it's just a question of by how much.

Ahh the paradox of altruism. Evolutionary psychology has been struggling with this one for some time, I choose to belive that people do do altruistic things but I cannot prove it.

Wish I had more time to talk on this but Im paying by the min here. I'll be back in 8-10 days - try not to create too much backlog

Well I asked you all not to create too much backlog - I suppose I got my wish :/
What happened to everyone? I outlined my ideal world but I didn't get to see what everyone else here wanted.
Ach well.

There is no such thing as an ideal world

i agree, people naturally always want bigger & better in life & with the world. satisfaction never ceases to be.

Thank you Carrie! I believe I said that at some point and time

Okay then whats the closest you can envision? What are the main things that you would change if you were god for a day?

Hmm. If we're asking about peoples satisfaction I think the problem is relative. As you go back throughout history people have had less and less rescources - we can do more now than was ever possible before. The average life expectancy of people has been steadily climbing.

It follows that there must be a point where an above-average* person in that time would be worse off than a below-average* person in this time. Howevere the person who percived himself to be below his contemporaries would be comparitively more dissatisified. Thus in theory if everyone were equal at the top of the contempary range of possible lifestyles then this desire for bigger&better may simply disappear.

Of course it can never be done, so we'll never know. But I was asking after theoretical ideal worlds no need to be particle about this.

* - refering to things like health and wealth, not their worth as a person.