h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Would it be suitable fuel for an AI butler?

I want to know if electronic food would taste good? And would it have less calories?

az

right, positive and negative feedback first.

positive feedback is best demonstrated with that horrendous noise that sometimes happens when your microphone is to close to it's speaker. the mike picks up the noise from the speaker, which is then amplified, and put back out of the speaker. it rapidly becomes a horrible howl.

negative feedback is best demonstrated using the springs in your car. you hit the bump, and instead on having a sudden massive bump, it causes an oscilation which rapidly disappears.

now, as to how AI helps make a better world....

first you had mechanisation, which removed the mechanical drudge work, like shovelling muck from point a to point b. AI helps you remove the intelectual drudge work, like the typing pool.

this means it takes less people to do the same work. if you then apply the methods of AI to do Intelligence Amplification, it helps you to work smarter, so that you don't have as much need to do the work in the first place.

this can be either a force for good or for harm, depending on how the society reacts to the requirement for less people to do the same amount of work.

If the only response is to employ fewer people, then it is harmfull.

if instead it frees up people to retrain to do something more worthwhile, then it can be helpfull.

in the extreme case, they can end up doing something more worthwhile, and at the same time having to spend less time doing it, and often getting paid a lot more for it as well.

in this case, they can then spend their extra wealth on improving their quality of life.

That particular vision of the future really scares me.

Why couldn't I have been a hunter/gatherer?

Lets all go back to the trees.

what do you find frightening about it, perhaps I can set your mind at ease.

if you are worried about the ultra intelligent machine, don't be. it is many decades away at the soonest, and a lot of things have to happen exactly wrong for it to occur at all.

I think possibly I'm just being anarchichal.

Something about desk jobs scares me maybe.

I'm all for people doing jobs where they use their brain, but I want to be stalking antelope through the Odean on Leicester square and climb the vines wrapped around the ruins of the BT tower...

desk jobs are not the only consequence. the move away from drudgery of the intellectual kind moves you more towards creative stuff and certain service industries.

for example we probably have more writers and musicians earning their living from it than at any time in history. the same goes for actors, moviemakers, and a lot of other creative industries.

as to vines around the ruins of the telecom tower, post apocalyptic futures are vastly over rated. they try and appeal to those seeking a simpler time in history, which has never existed. you just had to spend more of your time providing the essentials for yourself and your family, all of which was drudge work, and a lot of which was very dangerous.

Yeah, you probably have a point there. Maybe it'd be better if I just went on a Safari sometime.

But do we need millions of creative people? A world full of artist and musicians? It sounds like Berkley and San Francisco during the 60's.

hi Cal Blonde,

I agree with you. It's like when automation came in with the postal service. Thousands of people suddenly lost their jobs.

A bit utopian I think to believe that if AI thingys started doing all the grunge work that suddenly all the humans would be able to do something else more pleasant. Like what? There are only so many jobs to go around, as most unemployment statistics attest to.

No, it's not the best job in the world to have to collect garbage. But somebody has to do it. Where would all the garbage collectors go if AI technology suddenly made them redundant? These people obviously NEED this job - it doesn't sound like something they are doing whilst having many other options available to them.

az

It depends how society reacts, if some people were put out of work while others kept their jobs this would be the problem. What you would aim for would be to still have everyone employed, but working fewer hours each, The loss to their incomes would be balanced by the fall in prices of goods (due to the reduction in overhead caused by needing to employ less workers) Think of it as work-hours avalible - not jobs. Also monetary arguments only apply in a capitalist society a perfect communism has no money, if the machines could provide the food then it would reach the people who needed it regardless of employment status.

Sorry I've been offline and while, and am likely to be again for a few weeks. Hopefully cya all then.

"a perfect communism has no money" is complete rubbish.

money is nothing to do with wealth, and everything to do with financial management. once you get above a system of barter, it becomes much easier if you have an arbitrary system of money, which performs and intermediate function for when you don't won't the hastle of bartering.

as to the more general point of AI putting lots of people out of work, there is not a problem in a reasonable society. because jobs stopped being for life around 1970, you need to be able to retrain for your second or third career anyway.

as for "who would wan't a creative job?", would you really want to go back to having the only question asked in the takaway being "would you like fish with your chips?".

BouncyBitInTheMiddle ~ HI~ i wanted to comment on the good- bad and loop system.

I tend to think we are always spiraling up or down. Rarely stagnant.
I think we have good and bad rolled into one.
Often it takes time and distance to see the good in the bad, and vice versa.

Picturing a loop with energy ,it seems the loop would be spiraling up or down at all times.
There is a loop where you keep geting an opportunity to learn a particular lesson or to polish one to perfection. When you look back at these you can see a more obvious trail.

Any trial is a trail

Any trail is a trial.

I agree with that - it's a good description. Suddenly gave me a picture of everyone jumping round on pogo sticks

Back on the AI freeing people to be creative - not everyone is creative to the same extent. Unless you are being creative in the way you view the variety of activities that people undertake!

I think the problem would be that it tends to be the mundane, repetitive, unskilled tasks that no longer require manpower. Sadly the people who do these jobs are generally the least educated, often also the least able to learn. Ideally we should all have occupations suited to our abilities & temperament.

Unfortunately the less able also tend to find difficulty in adequately filling their leisure hours, so an increase in these would also be problematic.

hi Teasswill,

<>

Even the supposedly 'more abled' often don't know what to do with their lives when they don't have a job to do. For many people, having a job provides a much needed and desired structure in their lives.

My personal problem with this utopian AI concept is that the first jobs to go will be the mundane ones that don't require much skill, just putting in the hours. And then what would happen to these unskilled people? They will suddenly turn into creative and amazing beings who were just waiting for their moment to shine? I rather don't think so. Though I am sure some of them would. But not all.

az

Hi Az!

I think the whole idea of AI replacing mundane jobs is a great idea, if you are in the middle-upper class and have a college education. Stop the garbage man and ask him if he would like his mundane job to obsolete. I don't think him or his family would say yes.

I agree with Az eve the 'more abled' people have problems after losing their jobs, I know my company just recently laid off 31% of their staff (mostly managers)and I have a lot of friends who are just lost. They have no feeling of self worth, when you have a career and you are laid off or replaced it effects how you look at yourself.

hi CB,

<>

I think we all need to feel some sense of purpose - and often this takes the form of the work we do.

And even though most people might say - if asked - that they HATE their job, I would guess that they might feel quite lost without it. If only for the fact that they would no longer have something to hate all the time.

I keep thinking that all this AI stuff is something I probably won't live to witness. On the other hand, ten years ago I never would have guessed that EVERYONE AND HIS DOG would be talking on mobile phones. Or that such a thing as email could be possible.

Hmmm.

az

I quite agree with the sentiments expressed about people being laid off - I wasn't envisaging the reduction in labour being effected so drastically. More a gradual process, like not replacing people who choose to leave.

Yes, there are able people too who have difficulty knowing what to do with leisure time. We need to educate people how to relax & enjoy themselves!

Az, I think the AI revolution is already happening. Look at the factory robots, microchips in everyday appliances and so on. It's creeping up on us in all sorts of ways.

PS I do not own a mobile phone and have only used one about 3 times. And proud of it!

The only way it would not effect the population would be that population numbers decreased as the amount of robots increased. I mean think of how many people there are worldwide and think of how many of those people, espeically in third world countries, are dependent on those jobs. Think about speical needs people who don't have ability to be educated, I mean ability not chance, having a job cleaning the floor gives them a sense of purpose.

CA

p.s. I love my cell phone and there is nothing wrong with them as long as you aren't using it while your driving or have it always attached to your ear. I think it's a great convenience, like when I forgot something on the shopping list and my husband is on his way to the store. In fact a year ago I was stuck in a flood and I was able to call someone to get me and car out because I had my phone.