h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

They have card readers here into which you swipe your own card and then enter a pin. I'm not too keen on 'em meself for several reasons.

Firstly, anyone within eyesight of the reader can see the number you punch in. All they have to do then is steal your card and use it anywhere they please

Secondly, if it's a debit card which is also an ATM card, they could use it to draw cash out of your account and get your account details.

Thirdly, there are too many people who hand their card to the assistant even though the reader is right under their nose, and there are too many assistants who instead saying "You need to swipe the card and follow the instructions", do the whole damn thing for the customer like they're a baby who can't do it for themself.

I'm interested to know why you think that writing "Please ask for photo ID" on the back of a card is a bad thing Mudhooks - it seems like a foolproof way of ensuring that the person with the card is the legitimate owner since signatures can be forged with varying degrees of difficulty.

I really like the cards which a few banks now issue which have the owner's photo on. True, it's not often a great photo, but it's usually good enough for visual identification.

Oh, and if someone has signed their card but lazily scrawls a mark on the credit slip, I *always* ask for another signature or some ID, and if they get shirty about it I remind them that I'm doing my job correctly in protecting both them and the store from fraud. Just like the people who laugh off having an unsigned card though, too many of them make a stupid comment about 'my signature is different every time' Ok, most people's signature does differ slightly from one signing to the next, but at least make an effort! The signature is there for a purpose - it's the tool which allows the person behind the counter to verify that the person using the card is the legitimate owner of it. Unless we know the person by sight, it's the only way we have of doing that.

I have a couple of problems with signing for stuff. Not the process. It's still a valid way of identifying yourself. My problem is that between when I got my debit card and signed it (march last year) and the current date, my signature's degenerated from an almost legible signing to a vaguely random-seeming series of loops. Why? Because I worked for a period of time in a place where I had to sign a hundred receipts a day for people. My wrist just gave up the ghost after the first month.

As a consequence, my signature now is well different to what it is on the card. I can still do /that/ signature, but it takes some hesitation and thought, which means that on more than one occasion, a conscientious assistant has actually questioned my signature (which they should do, but it just annoys me because I /know/ it's my signature).

...stupid 'post message' button.



Hence, I don't tend to use the 'credit' function of my debit card any more. I get free EFTPOS anyway, so I just hit my savings up and key my PIN instead of bothering with the signing rubbish (And yes, Virginia, PIN Number is redundant. Don't forget that.). I only use credit for online transactions.

Well, I didn't say it was a bad thing to put "see Photo ID" the people who wrote the article which I credited (see the notation immediately after that part of my posting)... Shazam Net did.

Signing your card AND writing "See photo ID" still doesn't protect you from someone who steals your card and makes up fake photo ID...

Also, when you get your card, signing the card is an acknowledgement that you accept the agreement with your card company. It also means that when you sign your card and your sign your receipt for a purchase, YOU have made that purchase. In that case, when someone steals your card and uses it, they would have to forge your signature. In which case it is a crime.

If you do not sign your card and someone steals your card and signs it themselves, you can be liable for the charges, as you, in essence, gave them the opportunity to do so, whether you wanted them to use it or not. Sort of the same thing as if you leave the keys in your car and the door unlocked and someone steals it, smashes into a house and runs away... your insurance company will not be liable for the damages, as you did not take proper precautions with your vehicle.

If you call your credit card company and tell them that the $9000.00 stereo system charged to your account wasn't bought by you, and the stereo store says, we took photo ID as per the instructions on the front, you have a harder time 'splainin to the credit card company that you don't owe them for the bill than if you signed the card and someone stole it and used it.

The part about signing your card is their rule.... if you don't sign it, they have every right to refuse to honor the transaction. It is all in the small-print of your agreement with the credit-card company.

By the way, Visa is now beginning a new security program in which you can PIN your card for online purchases, called "Verified By Visa": http://www.visa.ca/verified/consumer/index.cfm?ref=visa.com

I don`t like the signature thing at all. If somebody got hold of my card, they would have a nice little sample of my signature. So they just have to copy that, and they can go on a shopping spree.

I prefer Danish standards. We don`t have chip cards(though I think they are on the way) but cards are always swiped and you have to use your pin code. And visa cards and those things all have photo on them. Admittedly pin is not perfect, but certainly seems more safe to me than signatures. Usually people have already handed me back my card before they ask me to sign the reciept. So they don`t check at all.

Well, "making up photo ID" is a but more difficult that forging a signature. And hopefully your card will have been reported stolen befor they have the time to do it.

A woman comes to me and asks if she can apply for a loan.

Fine, how much would you like?
I'd like to know how long it'll take to pay back before I decide.
Okay, how much would you like to repay every week?
That depends on how long it'll take to pay it off.
Alright, how long would you *like* to pay it back over?
I don't know. It depends on how much I get. Put it into your computer, there, and see.

...time passes...

Okay, so six thousand at thirty a week over two hundred and twelve weeks. That sound right?
That's great, hon.
Right. Can I have your account number please?

I doesn't have an account here, hon. Do I need one?

I take your point about signing the card being an acknowledgement of the terms and conditions Mudhooks. I have to go with Xanatic about the likelihood of anyone making up a fake ID though. I'd say that signing the card *and* asking the assistant to check a photo ID is a belt and braces approach, and I'll check to see I left room on my card for my sig when I wrote 'Please ask for ID'

"...and the stereo store says, we took photo ID as per the instructions on the front".
If that happened, you'd have a pretty good case against them unless someone did go to the trouble of making up a fake ID, which is a lot more difficult and time consuming than forging a signature, because whilst the photo on the ID may well match the face standing in front of you, the name on the card would have to match the name on the ID. If however by some quirk of fate the person whole stole the card happened to have the same name as you, then you're screwed

Actually, I just looked at the back of my card, and it doesn't say anywhere about signing the card being an acceptance of the terms and conditions - it says "By acceptance and use of this card, cardholder agrees to XXXXX XXXXX Credit Union's cardholder agreement." It does, of course, say "Not valid unless signed"

If you check the rather lengthy "terms and conditions" paper that accompanies your new card or is sent periodically by your card company, there will be something in there about it.

I don't work in retailing, so don't have any personal stories, but this site http://www.actsofgord.com/ is the most wonderful source of stupid customer stories I've ever found...

Oh, Dear...

I will have to make sure not to read that at work. I LOVE the way Gord had laid out his site.... and I checked out a few of the stories.... excellent.

Thank you for sharing that.

If you have any stories of being a customer or have a friend who works with the public (or even any work-related) tales, feel free to share then, too.

Bookmarking - with a wrapper from a plain Bounty

Thanks for that link It's good to know that the same people I see where at our store go to other stores too

Is anyone else hearing the voice of Comic Store Guy from The Simpsons as they read what The Gord is saying?

Well, Thanks a whole heap... That is ALL I can imagine, now that you have said it..... Butt-crack and all....

I prefer to think of "Gord" as a somewhat surly prophet.

Well, now I think of it...

Worst website ever

"St. Gord of the Miraculous itemized bill"

http://www.sabresedge.com/lowercase-s/icons/beeman.jpg