h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

1. Nope.

2. Yep.

3. Yep. Wasn't it Einstein that said something like "energy is endless"?

4. Yep. Although I prefer chemicals.

5. "Alien Intelligence" is a bad phrase. Alien existence, perhaps. Although it could also be government aircraft.

6. Yes and no. As with the whole pyramids thing...they could have started it, and we have definitely copied...

7. Yeh, it's more than likely (MaW - it's not necessarily *random* changes. More selected characteristics made it easier for some to breed and survive in changing enviroments)...

8. Not sure.

9. Mediums communicate with spirits...not many of them, no. But there are two that hit in on my instincts.

10. Telepathy is communication between living minds. Research has proven this exists between people with strong bonds - especially twins. So yes.

11. Not so much mind reading, but the power of the suggestive mind - such as hypnotism, and pushing people towards certain behaviours/answers.

12. Not sure.

" it means something that accounts for human intelligence/conscience which isn't simply the chemical/eletrical/other knowable-to-science workings of your brain..."

ah yes, but science can't even decide on what the mind is or where it is even. there is no definitive unifying theory that the mind is equivalent to the physical brain and thus solely chemical/electrical. (though some scientists certainly *believe* in this idea)

~~~

defining concepts for the purpose of this convo is a good idea. i'll go look for some definitions.


kea

i’m not that comfortable with the word ‘believe' because to me it implies a mental process that can change over time. i’ve experienced things my mind tells me probably aren’t real. belief can change while the experience doesn't. so i tend to go off my experience rather than what i believe and am not comfortable commiting to a list of beliefs (i.e don't take this as gospel).

anyway, here’s my list -

1. a major religion - not for me personally, but i have been influenced by buddhism and some of the wiccan and pagan philosophies. i was raised an anglican.

2. existance of the soul - definitely, but we would need some definitions eh?

3. Life after death - can’t say for sure until i get there, but it seems unlikely that there is absolute nothingness after physical death. even if i am just feeding worms and daisies... again definitions seem important here. the principle of energy not being able to be destroyed only changed seems relevant.

4. Homeopathy - yes, experienced this working many times - myself, other humans, animals.

5. UFOs as signs of alien intelligence - possible. if ufos exist i’m sure it because the aliens are intelligent

6. Crop circles as signs of alien intelligence - don’t know. i doubt its all hoaxes, though accept some at least are.

7. Evolution - evolution seems a very plausable theory. its not the only thing going on though. i live in a both/and universe not an either/or one.

8. The big bang as the origin of the universe - don’t know enough about it. seems a reasonable theory, but again i doubt its the only thing going on. most cultures think the universe was created from the void, so science has quite abit of support there


9. Mediums, i.e. communication with the dead - i’m sure some are communicating with something. and there will be frauds as well.

10. Telepathy - yes

11. Mind reading - not sure what you mean here

12. Ghosts or similar - sure. it depends on what you mean though. many people feel the presence of relatives and ancestors who are dead. how you want to explain that is another matter, but i believe it is a genuine experience.

1. a major religion NO

2. existance of the soul YES *collective conscious*

3. Life after death YES Probably not as we know it now, a transformation

4. Homeopathy Yes-for some problems

5. UFO/alien intelligence UFO ? Dunno~~~ sure *not ruling out other intellegence*

6. Crop circles NO *believe they have been solved as NOT alien* Other *patterns* seen from the air ,are more questionable to me

[7.8.] Evolution/Big Bang NO I believe in a *mix of evolution and creation* NOT all or nothing IMO on this one.

[9.10.11.12] Mediums ~Telepathy~Mind Reading ~Ghost/?/ YES in some degree NOT clear about all 4 of their differences. I believe in energies that represent thought and emotions and that nothing, nobody is ever totally destroyed but transformed as in every other aspect of life and energy.

Thats as close as I can come without long explanations!

At the risk of extending this thread to an unfeasable length, I'd like to modify Kea's question from "Do you believe in:" to "What is your theory on:"; that way the person answering provides the definition, and we get away from boring "Yes/No" answers... Who knows, it could even form the basis of an entry some day...

'twasn't my question originally...

but to your idea Peet. excellent.

Saturnine: (MaW - it's not necessarily *random* changes. More selected characteristics made it easier for some to breed and survive in changing enviroments)...

But the textbooks tell us that these changes occur due to genetic mutation caused by any number of factors, which is essentially random, and that there are at least as many mutations which aren't beneficial and which don't necessarily even survive the first generation in which they can breed. The sheer complexity of our bodies argues to me that there is a possibility of design, rather than sheer randomness.

Although I don't look at the perfect conditions for life on Earth and say 'how could it possibly be random when everything's just right for us to live here' - of course it's just right! We did come into being on this planet after all, it would be stupid to develop the ability to breath methane on a planet with an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere wouldn't it? Especially if you left out the ability to breathe oxygen (assuming you needed to breathe at all). Life on this planet all developed to the conditions prevailing at the time, and as the conditions changed so did the life change - hence we're pretty well adapted to the current planetary environment (apart from the bits we humans have wrecked). But that could be by design as well.

No MaW, that's not quite right. You need to think about the theories of natural/sexual selection, and then relate them back to the theory of evolution. Mutations are mutations; they aren't really that random, considering they occur today, and can be explained, and will be explained in more detail in the future. All to do with how us lot mate unconsciously/consciously to get a good mix of DNA to beat the bugs trying to kill us off, and adaptation to the enviroment, and paradoxally (sp??) what also will make sure our offspring are more attractive to the opposite sex. Big huge and very interesting topic. But still doesn't answer the *why are we here?* question.

i thought the question was "How can anyone believe in astrology?"

Yes, but I was just addressing a point

Who believes in:

1. A major religion

I beleive major religions exist...I wouldn't follow one because I believe religion is just another tool for social engineering and I don't like the idea of being engineered. Plus I don't believe in gods of any sort...I prefer the idea of chance...I appreciate the long odds that have got humanity to where it is today.

2. Existance of the soul

Nah...far to human-centric...we aren't special we're just animals with too much time on our hands.

3. Life after death

I don't belive in it, I'd be truley surprised if it happened to me and I don't live my life in expectation of it.

4. Homeopathy

Odd one, there is evidence that it has an effect but the process is a mystery...I think there is something in it but I don't believe either science or homeopaths are barking up the right trees to find it.

5. UFOs as signs of alien intelligence



6. Crop circles as signs of alien intelligence

No but they are beautiful so I hope the hoaxers never give up

7. Evolution as the origin of life on earth

Origin of life is completely separate to evolution. I buy evolution hook line and sinker (speaking as a geologist)...I like it it makes sense and it's also useful when trying to get a mental idea of a million years. As to how it started I don't believe god came down and created DNA or added a spark or anything like that but I do think we're a long way off finding the answers (mainly because the clues are so small)...the whole primal soup myth annoys me almost as much as the plate tectonics driven by convection currents myth...but then once we've got all the geologists onside we'll worry about convincing the public

8. The big bang as the origin of the universe

Yup...although it's a little bit too neat

9. Mediums, i.e. communication with the dead

No

10. Telepathy

I don't buy telepathy in a Uri Geller sense but I thikn non verbal communication is hugely underrated.

11. Mind reading

See above

12. Ghosts or similar

I think these say more about the observers than the dead...I know how irrational my own mind can be so there are times I don't trust it...I love ghost stories though...stems back to my morbid/romantic phase in my teens

Who believe in:

1. A major religion.

I don't follow any of the major religions.

2. Existance of the soul.

I do believe we have a soul. I can't explain it in scientific terms, unless I started talking about Shadow Matter, but it simply makes sense to me that we have a soul.

3. Life after Death.

Yes. If there is no life after death - no continuous, higher justice, or whatever, then pretty much everything we do makes no difference to us, as individuals, since we'll cease to exist anyway.

4. Homeopathy.

I guess is works as it has relieved my fiancés troubles - not a cure but helps cope with various ailments.

5. UFOs as a sign of alien intelligence.

I don't believe aliens have ever visited us. I believe there are other alien civilisations but they probably don't have the technology to reach us yet. May never reach us. The problem is one of distance: by the time we receive a message from another civilisation and replied, that civilisation may well have either become exstinct, their sun blown up, or simply moved!

6. Crop circles as a sign of alien intelligence.

No - natural phenomena or hoaxes. Look great though.

7. Evolution as the origin of life on earth.

Yes. There is, I believe, ample evidence for this. A mixture of evolution and creationism. It's too much of a coincidence that life just happened to start.

8. Big Bang as the origin of the universe.

Yes, although along side some sort of god. I don't believe in the randomness of things or pure chance.

9. Mediums, communication with the dead.

Yes - at least, it's probably possible - once you've waded through all the charlatans and frauds that is.

10. Telepathy

I guess is possible - we really don'y understand that much about the brain.

11. Mind reading.

See answer to 10.

12. Ghosts, or similar.

Yes, I think it's possible. It may be explained one day by physics by this stuff called Shadow Matter - very odd. I don't know too much about it, neither does anyone else it seems.

Evolution is the explanation for the history of life on Earth after it originated, but not itself the origin, which is usually called abiogenesis, wherever it happened.

The Big Bang seems to be have happened, but whether it really is the origin of the Universe or whether it only obscures some previous history, I don't know.

I disbelieve all the supernatural/paranormal stuff in your poll.

Hed

Saturnine:

But the actual mutations, and the effects they have, are essentially random. Your comment implied that the mutations themselves are somehow selected to be beneficial, which they couldn't be in a random system - it's just that only the beneficial ones survive.

That the mutations are selected to be beneficial in at least some cases is what I would suggest as a theory of 'guided evolution' whereby the development of life is nudged from time to time by some other force, which could be seen as a deity of some sort - the Goddess and God, in my beliefs.

It's not like suddenly something has longer legs than everything else. It's just subtle changes. I mean, how many times do you see someone that has just randomly mutated features? If they do, it's usually down to some inherited or genetic. Stuff just doesn't happen.

Or does it?

I believe the word "reason" was left out there!

1. A major religion

Yes, the cult of science. I'm somewhat more likely to believe scientists (in their area of expertise) than others (but not social scientists of course).

2. Existance of the soul

Depends what you mean, something non-physical associated with our physical bodies? Does it have to be eternal? etc.

3. Life after death

By definition of the terms as I understand them the answer is tautologically "no".

4. Homeopathy

I don't know enough about it to say, although I'm doubtful.

5. UFOs as signs of alien intelligence

I've not seen one and I do believe that the majority are hoaxes, but that doesn't rule out genuine sightings.

6. Crop circles as signs of alien intelligence

Seems unlikely, unless the aliens are rich kids with nothing better to do than...

7. Evolution as the origin of life on earth

As someone else pointed out, you probably mean something like evolution as the primary explanation for the structures of living organisms. Yes.

8. The big bang as the origin of the universe

Depends what you mean. I believe, although I must admit I haven't checked the calculations myself, that the big bang is a prediction of the mathematical models of theoretical physics. Given that quantum physics (which deals with the very small) hasn't been unified with relativity (which deals with the very large generally speaking) it seems rather hopeful to assume that at an event like the big bang, where the entire universe occupies a very small space, would be adequately modelled by general relativity.

9. Mediums, i.e. communication with the dead

No.

10. Telepathy

Never seen any evidence of it myself, but wouldn't rule out the possibility. If the sci-fi writers are correct, maybe we'll see it as a future stage of human evolution.

11. Mind reading

As above.

12. Ghosts or similar

Depends on what you mean. Probably not.

Hmm, glad to hear I'm not the only sceptic here ... I was beginning to feel like a real outcast!

I think the range of answers demonstrates very clearly that there's little point in arguing about such things ... the differences in opinion are so great that there's unlikely to be much common ground available...

I suppose if you're enjoying the argument, it'll help while away the hours until there's something constructive to do