h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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No. Too easy.

Alright, so you've seen Jupiter -- and so it may well have affected you.

That, as far as I can make out, is the only justifiable way the motions of the planets has any relevance to us whatsoever.

Anyway -- I don't argue sceptical viewpoints any more, it just gets annoying for all concerned. So I'll shut up now (and unsubscribe after reading any replies)

except you'd have to agree that the moon and sun affect us wouldn't you ?

Please don't say 'you'd have to agree'...

Yes, the sun and moon affect us. I can see better when the sun's up, and I can go down to the beach when the sun and moon conspire to put the tides in the right place.

Oh, and all the seasons stuff to do with the sun, and emotional effects of noticing that the moon is in the sky...

But this is hardly complex stuff, and the idea that there should be (or needs to be) anything beyond that seems odd.

(Incidentally, having done a little back-of-the-envelope calculation... the gravitational force on you from the moon is approximately the same as the gravitational force from a car across the street. There's simply no way it can justify astrology)

Perhaps they exert forces other than gravity on us.

(*ahem* having actually done the calculations correctly, I'm revising that to 'the building you're standing next to, or perhaps a hill')

I'm not saying anything about other forces...

ok an example.

the moon's effect on the tides. observable on a twice daily basis, but the tides are also affected by the position of the moon in relationship to the earth - full moons bring higher tides (monthly cycle), and spring full moons bring even higher tides (seasonal). there are effects from the different distances between the earth and the moon and the sun. (i'm very tired so am explaining this from a lay perspective not a science one)

so it is already more complex than the most easily observed lunar effect. and thats looking only at the grossest effects, not more subtle ones like energy.

basic lunar astrology works on the above principles - the changes of physical position of the moon over a month in particular.

most of the natural world including many humans especally women experience this directly all the time. and it doesn't have to be made more complicated than that. it always surprises me that people sometimes think because something holds mystery it can't be mundane as well. the ancients had direct relationships with the sun and moon and earth in this way.

having said that, humans do love generating culture. so over time in specific places different stories have developped for how we relate with the natural world. astrology is one of them, complexity is a reult of this happening for a very long time i think. that may or may not have been necessary, but personally i find it intellectually stimulating and soul nourishing.

In pre-industrial societies, as well as the gravitational influence from the tides, the moon also played a significant part in being a variable source of useful night-time illumination. I understand some large nocturnal predators have hunting success varying with level of moonlight, so it's not inconceivable for moonlight to have affected some human activities (either doing things or hiding from predators) on a monthly basis.

The Sun exerts much influence on the Earth due to its immense size, the moon due to its proximity. The practical physical effects of celestial bodies other than the Sun and Moon are much harder to imagine.

If astrology is a real thing that can affect us, it would be interesting to know how the force, or energy, or whatever it would be, reaches us since the planets are journeys of months and years, and the stars are thousands or millions of years away. It would have to travel faster than light.

Jumping in in response to the subject line, my answer is

'quite easily'

However, I will back up what has been said about newspaper astrology and the like. 'Proper' astrology is so far ahead of what's in newspapers that it's barely contained in the same name (at least as far as I see it).

Astrology also doesn't predict the future. Like the tarot, which I've been studying recently, it examines the current situation in terms of influences past and present, and from that can be extrapolated *possibilities* only - just like with the weather forecast, as was said earlier. The future is not being foretold, but an educated guess is being taken, and often they can be very good guesses.

I don't pretend to know the explanation for it - I've not studied astrology very much at all, and I don't pretend to know everything anyway. However, given that I believe in and practise magic, it's not exactly a large leap for me to believe in the possibility of astrology. Personally, I believe there are forces which science has yet to observe, study and classify - but that doesn't mean that they are not there. Some understanding of some of them is possible, for people willing to believe - and for those who aren't, that's fine. All the stuff that's immediately important - like gravity, momentum and the like - is kind of obvious and very useful when knowing how to avoid getting run over.

I think gravitation travels faster than light as it extends to infinity. So it can be done.

Sorry, milo ... it was recently shown that gravitation does in fact only travel at the speed of light...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2238452.stm

That just says that they assume it does. Interesting though. Wonder when they'll have results.

They do ... it's just that was the first article I found on the topic.

(alright, alright, I'm lazy, I admit it )

"I understand some large nocturnal predators have hunting success varying with level of moonlight, so it's not inconceivable for moonlight to have affected some human activities (either doing things or hiding from predators) on a monthly basis."

women living far from artificial light menstruate and ovulate in synch with the moon - ovulation occurs alongside the full moon. this is because of the effect of the light of the full moon monthly on the pineal gland, thus regulating hormonal systems. women living in cities and towns can simulate this effect by sleeping in complete darkness (blackout) except for 3 days a month when you can either sleep with the curtains open at full moon, or sleep with a dim light on. some women use this to regulate their cycles, especially if they are trying to conceive.


there is a lot of evidence to suggest that human females shifting from seasonal fertility to lunar fertiliy created human culture. certainly humans had lunar calendars before they had solar ones and i think its because the lunar effects were so obvious in the human female body.

"All the stuff that's immediately important - like gravity, momentum and the like - is kind of obvious and very useful when knowing how to avoid getting run over."