h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

*too much backlog*

I'm off to direct Justin to this thread. And askh2g2.

Hoo old chap .

You have an excellent reputation and don't let anyone say you haven't. Although we have disagreed about your apporach once or twice I can at least understand it, more than I can say about JtP.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Hi Blues Shark .

"I've seen no evidence of him attempting to yikes posts, or even asking people not to post in his space, or even asking people to keep things on topic in a thread."

To my uncertain knowledge he has had me Yikes'd twice. Neither case was for abuse or rudeness, he just didn't like what I said. People here will attest that I am studiously courteous around him, although some of them can't understand why .

He frequently tells Jordan and I that we should not talk to him and that he will not reply to us (yet he continues to do so). He is frequently rude and abusive to both of us and accuses us of being idiots and trolls and says he despairs of us.

Justin also spends a lot of his time disrespecting other people's beliefs in a most unpleasant manner, yet when he is subject to reasoned challenges about this he unsubscribes or just plain ignores the questioner.

Personally I find the man fascinating and really want to understand him. I want to debate with him and will defend his right to speak here to the last. I understand why some people find him offensive and yikes him. I also understand how he got put on pre-moderation.

In a general sense I think he would like to limit our freedom of speech, for he would like us all to listen and not question. I have said this to his face and not had it denied.

But freedom means nothing unless all are free and so I will continue to offer him my friendship and stand up for his right to speak.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Matholwch

This post has been removed.

If JTP has yikes'd people then fair enough, I stand corrected.

On the other handm, simply being rude and not communicating well makes him an ideal candidate for the Royal Family and no-ones ever accused them of attempting to stifle free speech (Note: This is a JOKE.)

Hoov, if it's a real problem for you, then by all means point out that a mistake has been made. All I'm saying is that you don't have to do it so rudely. Taking things to the logical extreme of libel cases is a case in point. Why be so extreme?

I'm sorry to say that it's a real possibility I shall have treat threads with your good self in them like I do threads with JTP in them : Avoid them like the plague.

Come come Blues- I'm sure that hide is thick enough to within Hoo's.... brusque manner.

>My picture of Justin is someone who has suffered abuse and uses his religion as a coping method<

Hasslefree, are you a registered psychologist? It is extremely offensive towards those with mental illness as well as those who have suffered abuse to suggest that. You have no right to make a statement like that...

Doh! Too much . Or peach schnapps, actually. 'Withstand' that should read.

I can imagine Justin as someone who uses religion as a coping method, certainly. A stable point in his life.

Or he could simply have been raised in a strict Christian household, and taken it to extremes. I don't know. I don't know anything about his background, and I don't suppose he'd tell me if I asked- it's none of my business, I suppose.

I didn't say I was going yet, KA. Just pointing out that Hoov's methofd of dealing with every point that isn't in his favour with hostility/brusqeness is extremely alienating.

In my opinion, *as* alienating as JTP's refusal to enter into proper debate.

OK. It has taken me a while (and H2G2 crashed while I was composing this) but I have been back through the conversations list for the past couple of weeks and have found the links for the threads I was referring to http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/F19585?thread=225200 http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/F19585?thread=225211 (and I don't care if that's not how you paste links) The reason I said what I said Hoovooloo was because you seem to have bought this man to everybody's attention more than once. The threads up there are not directly about him but there is definitely and underlying theme. It is apparent (rightly or wrongly) to me that the things he says on here affect you somewhat more than it does others. I did read the entire backlog before I posted. I did not "lie". I did "bother to check my facts." "And is it really so bad to be rude to people who've lied about you?" Well, on this occasion, yes. Not once did you come back and say "would you like to clarify what you mean" or something *polite* like that. I don't think I have ever been spoken about in the way you have spoken about me. I think you will find that I haven't ever been rude to you. All I can see is that you get very worked up about things that you really shouldn't get worked up about. Your posting(s) were very angry and very rude. I hope our paths don't ever cross again as I have not enjoyed this experience at all.

Aye up Hoo, ah reckon' you an' Justin git summat in common- both y' posting styles rub folks up wrong way yawth

They have something else in common as well, but we'll have to wait for Hoov's reply to Lady In a Tree for it to be proved.

Innocent until proven guilty Blues...

OK, In my opinion they have something else in common...

That's better. Good

Justin is acceptable in my view.

Hello, Hasselfree!

Post 140:

"The written word is strong enough for subtle brainwashing.
Read any red top newspapers lately! Justin shows many signs that this has been done to him. Count the repetitions in what he writes."

That he may have been brainwashed, I believe. That he's competent to brainwash others, especially in an environment like h2g2, where he's surrounded by self-appointed representatives of the voice of reason - that's an entirely different question.

"Ok you and I we’re discerning adults, but maybe just maybe there is just one poor soul out there, beginning to think that they might burn in hell, for some perceived sin or other – homosexuality perhaps or hey even being a woman might do it."

If Justin got that person alone in a room somewhere, I might see cause for concern, but that ain't gonna happen here. Better he's here in a public forum (with Hoovooloo and Saturnine and Matholwich and others following him around like some kind of fan-club) than off in a room with some vulnerable kid!

"It can be a very short step from proclaiming oneself the word of God to claiming to be the hand of God in action."

That is... an interesting point, with which I don't disagree... More in a sec.

post 145:

GTB: "People's association of him with these other types of fundamentalists, who try to bring about change in the world, strikes me as ill-considered prejudice.”

Hasselfree: I wonder if you could elucidate that thought a little bit.


I'd be happy to. Let me just start with the caveat that this is my interpretation of his beliefs, and I may be wrong.

The key difference is trying to bring about some change in the world. JtP's agenda seems to me to be simply stating his truth, because he believes he is commanded to do so. He doesn't seem to believe that he's commanded to actually get it across to anyone, or to change the way the world works, or to actually affect or effect anything! He's just preaching until the day he dies, secure in the conviction that he's saved, most people are damned, and there's nothing for it but to say so, repeatedly, because that's what he's commanded to do, never mind why.

Mind you, I don't think he'd be upset if someone were 'saved' after reading his spiel. I just don't think he'd take credit for it, or consider himself a failure if it didn't happen. God and God alone decides who to save, according to his beliefs.

There is the matter of being persecuted for his beliefs. If he is persecuted (as I'm sure he feels his fan-club is doing), then that's a sign that he's doing something right, and confirmation that he is really saved, and his correspondents really damned. Not *feeling* (different from actually *being*) persecuted probably makes him a bit uneasy.

Your point from above comes back in, in a second. As long as JtP is in his corner, proclaiming his faith, and a crowd of people are disagreeing with him, he's probably happy. He'll maintain that for a good long while. I know of a gentleman who preaches the Word in Speaker's Corner, Hyde Park, every Sunday. I saw him in 1991, when I first visited London. He was still there in 1995, again in 1997, and still there in.... January 2002. The crowd of hecklers provides security for him, to know that he's still on the right track. I don't think he's at all likely to go mad and start killing people. I think people like him will always exist, and that'll be great!

"It can be a very short step from proclaiming oneself the word of God to claiming to be the hand of God in action."

I don't see that happening, although I can't rule it out. It would at least take some kind of perturbation. I can't think what. Hoovooloo merely telling Justin that we all accept him here probably won't do it, because he won't believe it - he might just identify himself with the Word, which if we don't accept, then we don't really accept him. That would be an easy rationalization.

I think a fundamentalist is much more likely to turn violent if their usual outlet - preaching among the heathen masses - is not available.

I'll stop rambling now. I'm probably dead wrong about all of that, but I had fun typing it.


GTB


Hmmm.... even as I was typing this reply, your post 145 was hidden. I can't imagine why. My reply doesn't copy anything from there that could possibly be construed as offensive, I don't think. Maybe I'll save a copy of this one anyway...

Hasslefree - I apologise for misspelling your name in my last post.