h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Good one.
(Still wish I could use 'queer' in the other sense, though.)

I know I'm a bit late with this (it's an answer to post 95) but...
Hoovooloo (Hiya, long time no see ) said:

"The latter point develops the question into the interesting area of exceptions. Mentioned above, "oh, yeah, when I use 'gay' as a term of abuse I don't mean it to be denigrating to the gay people I know and like'. Many people with "ism" prejudices have exceptions (e.g. white racists who nevertheless like (delete as applicable) Barry White/Lenny Henry/Goodness Gracious Me/Eddie Murphy etc.). How do people reconcile this level of doublethink? (possibly off-topic, so ignore that if you like...)"

I've always found it incredibly amusing that so many of our neighbours, all my life, all over the country, have been able to forget our colour enough to rant on to us about "coloured people" and then, when it eventually hits them, quickly say "Oh, I didn't mean you of course. You're different."

Isn't that the way most people think of any minority (or even majority) to which they don't belong?
When they learn that someone they like and trust is a member of that frightening/disgusting/alien sub-group they have to assume that person is in no way typical. The alternative would be too awful to contemplate. . .

Hehehe, ever tried doing the opposite to them and seen how they react? Or would that be too dangerous.

But it sounds right, you should always bend the facts to fit your opinions.

In response to what NBY said: If somebody thought I was homosexual, would I be offended? I'd say, not at all. I might come across that way for many reasons - I am a 'sensitive and artistic' male and there's nothing wrong with that - and there are many heterosexual males like that, which only goes to show that stereotypes are not universally appliccable!

I would not be offended if a homosexual man came on to me either!

What might cause a problem is if a woman I was interested in thought that I was a homosexual only trying to pretend to be heterosexual and if as a result of that she was wary of becoming involved in a serious relationship with me. But anyways I am not an 'unmanly' man, I am a rather rugged fella, I only happen to be sensitive and artistic on top of that as well!

Would I be offended if someone thought I was gay? Depends on how much I value their opinion, and the circumstances surrounding the statement. If it was said loudly in front of a crowd, and I was interested in hooking up with a member of the opposite sex (or at least trying to keep the possibility available) I would deny it vehemently. Likewise, if it were in front of coworkers who don't know me well, I'd deny it to prevent false rumors, and I'd be very upset.

If the audience is made up of people whose opinions either don't matter to me, or who know me so well that they know better, I wouldn't be offended. If I had my girlfriend nearby at the time, we'd have a good laugh over it.

I have been offended when gay men catcalled me as I walked past a gay bar (a frequent and unavoidable discomfort, since the bar was directly between my friend's apartment in downtown Waikiki and the parking lot a couple of blocks away), but straight women get offended by the same behavior (as in the stereotypical construction site thing), so I don't think it's a big deal. Then again, I have been catcalled by women, and I've never been offended... flattered, more like. So I guess I'm a bigot after all.

Ah, but would you be offended if a really ugly woman catcalled you?

If the answer is yes, you're not necessarily a bigot.

Are there ugly women?

I'm not ranting but I think that the whole world has become
peopleophobic. ok it's a made up word please don't sue me.
It seems nowadays you can't just go and do your own thing(whatever it is) without somebody acusing you of an "ISM" of some sort.
My whole point is life is not a dress rehearsal, if you like what you do,and it does no one any harm, then do it!!!!
life is too short and too precious.
NOW ALL JOIN TOGETHER, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, REPEAT AFTER ME,
"I don't mind what you do,it's your life NOT MINE!"

A couple of years ago I marched with a quarter of a million people through the centre of London.

We were marching for all sorts of things, farming, rural life, bus-services, stuff like that. But the march was organised by the hunts, (the groups which hunt foxes).

I am not particularly pro-hunting. But I AM very anti the antis. Any antis.

* supporting the right of the individual to go to hell in their own way... *

a girl called Ben

"NOW ALL JOIN TOGETHER, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, REPEAT AFTER ME,
"I don't mind what you do,it's your life NOT MINE!" "

I would be happy if everyone could live by that phrase. Would make it easier for me to be myself, I wouldn't have to snap at people for criticing me for doing what I feel comfortable doing.

Probably worth chucking into the conversation at this point that despite almost a whole parliament of a Labour government and their landslide re-election for the first time in the party's history, we still in the UK have a law preventing local education authorities from distributing materials which "promote" homosexuality. Which is to say, anything which suggests homosexuality is in any way normal for anyone is banned from being used in British schools. By law.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not sure what constitutes "promotion". I'm not convinced I saw anything in school which promoted heterosexuality, but there was never any doubt in my mind that for me, girls was where it was at. Conversely, I am absolutely certain that even if Boy George had been my biology teacher (now there's a mental image...) I'd have turned out exactly the same way.

There is, it seems, a substantial (or at least vocal) minority who consider being gay as something damaging. They'd agree about "do what thou wilt as long as it harms nobody", but they'd consider merely being gay as being potentially harmful, as it may corrupt the kiddies. It's funny, but whenever you ask these people, or at least whenever *I* ask these people, they can't think of a single thing that they could have been shown or told at school which would have "turned them gay". But they feel a deep need to protect "vulnerable" young people, despite, apparently, never having met one.

Random thought from the HVL.

That´s the problem with "as long as it harms none". Some will claim just swearing is harmful. And I think many animal activists ought to be put in cages, but fox hunting is certainly something that comes under the category harmful. Imagine a sport where you torment an animal like that.

On the topic of fox hunting, let's think about it this way. How would we feel if something bigger than us, and armed with nasty things that'd hurt us, were chasing us with the intent of killing us? If we wouldn't want to be on the end of being chased and hunted down, what gives us the right to hunt the poor little fox down just for the fun of it? It's one thing to hunt something to use for food, clothing, and shelter, but it's another to hunt something just because we feel like it.

As for the subject of the law about not having anything in the british schools that would promote homosexuality, I think that's not nearly as bad as the fact that whole states here in the United States are not learning about Darwinism, the evolutionary theories, and such because all the bible thumpers who make up the majority of those states think that it's harmful for their children to learn about these things, they're afraid that learning about evolutionary theory will undermine their beliefs in creationism. What they don't realize is they're harming their children more than they're helping them, since if their child *gasp* decides to move out of state to go to college, they'll be majorly behind in college classes, they won't know what other people are talking about when they talk about this stuff, and basically, they'll look like an idiot to anyone, including the people who didn't really pay attention in their classes in high school, but still picked up bits and pieces by acsident.

The parent and church should be responcible for teaching the child what is to believe, and what isn't... and if they child learns about evolutionary theory, it doesn't mean they have to believe in it, it means they'll know what other people are talking about when it's brought up. Besides, if they're challenged on their beliefs, it's easier to defend them if they know the other side of the coin, so they don't just have to prove why what they believe is right, they can also prove why the other idea is wrong. It makes sense to me to teach children both ideas, and let the child decide on their own which is the correct idea, but I guess logic must be tossed out the window along with the theory of evolution in so many schools that no one seems to grasp that it is better to teach about both.

Swearing? Harmfull? F*****g B******s!

I cannot beleive that I have only just now seen the full irony of (male) tory politicians passing a 'law about not having anything in the british schools that would promote homosexuality'.

What do you mean, the world wasn't created in 7 days 4531 years ago? How ignorant can you be?

***B

You shouldn´t teach both, because Creationism isn´t a scientific theory. It should be taught in religion class, along with the aboriginal creation myth, the kalahari creation myth and so on. All the thousands of creation myths there are.

...and the Babylonian one about the bisected dragon.
It's fine to let people do what they like, since it's their business. They should also let me get on with mine- like the extreme religious types. All through until high school (age 16), we had prayers. Hymn practice only ceased at age 11. They were proper Christian prayers, too, no general good-will messages for everyone. In RE (a compulsary subject until year 10) we briefly looked at Sikhism, but the rest was Christianity. Incredibly dull Christianity, too. And I had one teacher who threatened to keep me in at lunchtime for saying 'god' in vain (or something). I got really offended by the last one, and would have defended my right to be unbothered by others' beliefs had I not been only 12. Ugh. I was just reading about the Creationist thing in America, and thinking 'Thankfully, our Church and state are separate' before realising that they're not. But they should be... it obviously doesn't work, judging on examples so far.
Don't even get me started on bloody Section 28...

A few passing thoughts on some of the recents posts in this thread, in no particular order...

"That's so gay" or "You're so gay," as an insult. In the US, the word gay has come to have, as its primary meaning, a homosexual man. Use of this word in any other context will lead to snickering among any juveniles (or adults with juvenile mentalities) in earshot. IMO, the implication is clear... gay is a bad thing. Yes, most of the kids (and it is mostly kids who use that particular insult) who use "gay" as an insult do so just because it's the insult of the day, without considering that they're really insulting a significant number of people.

"Prejudice in regards to gay men or lesbians is not the same as homophobia." I disagree. Prejudice has its roots in fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of the known, fear of being mistaken for "one of them," fear of being mistaken for someone who considers "them" as human. It doesn't matter which "them" you're talking about.

On school censorship relating to matters of sexuality, evolution, etc... don't get me started. Let's not really educate our kids to understand that there is more than one way of living or believing. Great introduction to the real world...

On the "not you, you're different" phenomenon... Some people will never overcome their prejudices, so they make exceptions to the rule, to preserve the rule. I think this is pretty universal. I've been made an "honorary member" of several minority groups, by people who had trouble accepting that I could be a person who has never been protected by any anti-discrimination laws (Okay, so now I'm old enough to be protected against age discrimiination. People age 40 - 70 are a "protected class.") and be comfortable as the only such person in a group. I'll admit to my own prejudices. I don't care much for most wealthy people. There are exceptions, of course...

A few passing thoughts on some of the recents posts in this thread, in no particular order...

"That's so gay" or "You're so gay," as an insult. In the US, the word gay has come to have, as its primary meaning, a homosexual man. Use of this word in any other context will lead to snickering among any juveniles (or adults with juvenile mentalities) in earshot. IMO, the implication is clear... gay is a bad thing. Yes, most of the kids (and it is mostly kids who use that particular insult) who use "gay" as an insult do so just because it's the insult of the day, without considering that they're really insulting a significant number of people.

"Prejudice in regards to gay men or lesbians is not the same as homophobia." I disagree. Prejudice has its roots in fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of the known, fear of being mistaken for "one of them," fear of being mistaken for someone who considers "them" as human. It doesn't matter which "them" you're talking about.

On school censorship relating to matters of sexuality, evolution, etc... don't get me started. Let's not really educate our kids to understand that there is more than one way of living or believing. Great introduction to the real world...

On the "not you, you're different" phenomenon... Some people will never overcome their prejudices, so they make exceptions to the rule, to preserve the rule. I think this is pretty universal. I've been made an "honorary member" of several minority groups, by people who had trouble accepting that I could be a person who has never been protected by any anti-discrimination laws (Okay, so now I'm old enough to be protected against age discrimiination. People age 40 - 70 are a "protected class.") and be comfortable as the only such person in a group. I'll admit to my own prejudices. I don't care much for most wealthy people. There are exceptions, of course...

I remember watching a movie that was taking place in Victorian England. It was a comedy, with some rather sexual innuendos. There are two guys in it who has a rather strange relationships, and one guy comments on them as saying "You´re always so gay, but that friend of yours, he seems a bit queer." Sounded funny to hear it.

Prejudice isn´t rooted in fear, but in ignorance. It´s our overactive imaginations. It can result in fear, but also in other things. In some cases it means a minority is treated rather good. Look at the Indians, people have some idea they are these noble warriors living in harmony with Nature and all that ****.

...which would be why we massacred a lot of them and drove the rest to the least habitable areas on the continent.