h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Here here. All in favour say Aye.

"Aye" and "author, author"!

>> ..if you can't, then ask yourself do you really understand.. <<

Normally I'd be of two minds on something like that. But I tried it and well, oh my, that's fun! It felt just like I imagine Zaphod must feel when asking himself a rhetorical question. Doesn't it?

~jwf~

Two things

1) ""His breath was strangely redolent of, for no banquet would ever serve, knowing the powerful redolence of onions, onions, onions"."
Can someone please help me parse that? I can only just mnake sense if I think of it as three sperate senbtences jumbled up and seperated by the commas.

2) I have just found another english word derived from Hindi, 'toddy' as in a hot toddy which is what I would be given to drink when feeling ill and under the weather. No point to that, just thought it interesting. I'd always assumed it was yorkshire dialect or something.

"Can someone please help me parse that? "

Not I.
My best offer is: "Leave it as three sentences and enjoy the hot toddy."

Now hold on just a parse sec there fella, I can only find one sentence and two clauses, or, by breaking it down, make two complete sentences and one clause.

1. His breath was strangely redolent of onions.
2. (for) No banquet would ever serve onions.
2a. (because of) knowing the powerful redolence of onions.

The first sentence tells us the smell of onions is a 'strange' occurence, because (for), no banquet would serve them (onions), being professionally acquainted with the consequences of the smell (of onions). This is all speculation and it suggests that he was supposed to have been at a banquet where, we have agreed, it is unlikely onions would have been served. Because of the smell.

It's a circular thought that spirals in like a flaming plane climaxing in an explosion of 'onions,onions,onions!'.

Are we therefore to conclude that he was not at the banguet but somewhere else and eating onions?

Had he repeated the word (onions) in each and every sentence, clause or phrase (the way I have just done) it would have proved boring. Instead, he saves them all for one explosive climax, repeating the word emphatically, emphatically, emphatically to give it three dimensional reality in a six sense world. The word made fleshier.

To be immortal a sentence must be quotable without the benefit of any supporting context. This case raises unanswerable questions like where was he if he wasn't at the banquet and where did he get them onions. Not quite the equal of 2 be or not 2 be though parallels are suggested.

Did y'all know that halitosis is not an ancient Latin word for a common medical condition well known to the Romans but is actually a very modern creative construction (based on the Latin word to breathe) and copyright of the Listerine breath freshening company?

Did you know that caffiene and tobacco create much worse smelling breath than onions? Or even garlic, garlic, garlic.

Damn, am I being rhetorical again?
Well, where there's smoke there's mirrors.

~jwf~

Guess what's the first sentence of the next para? That's right....Onions! Burgess liked the sentence so much that he used it in both the first and third volumes of the 'Enderby' trilogy.

On the teenspeak in "A Clockwork Orange" - It's called "Nadsat". Russian for 11, 12, 13....is odinnadsat, dvenadsat, trenadsat....etc. I found my knowledge of Nadsat very useful when I visited Russia (just after Gorby came to power). On the bus from the airport into Leningrad, I noticed a shop sign which said "Moloko" (as in moloko plus, moloko synthemesc, moloko with knives...etc). I thought, "Ah! A dairy"

Gnomon: If we *really* wanted English to be clear and simple, we'd have to do things like stripping out all the complex, latinate vocabulary. That, in my opinion, would be doubleplusungood.

I think we can certainly agree that ~jwf~, Edward and Burgess certainly know their onions.

And their tripe!

It's surprising just how many 'English' word come from my old langauage Hindi -"char", fr'instance, as in "charlady", is Hindi (& Japanese I think) for "tea".

Char and its variants (cha, chai, tchai, etc.) are found the world over. I *think* (but I'll have to check) that they all originate directly from the Chinese (confirmed: [Probably Dutch thee, from Malay teh, from Chinese (Amoy) te(equivalent to Chinese (Mandarin) chá).] )

But, yes, 'Charlady' came to English from the Raj. English has had a strong influence from: Bungalow; Pukka (as in Jamie Oliver); Jungle; shampoo; bandana; bangle; cheetah; Blighty; cot; juggernaut; goolies (!); loot; thug; dungarees; jodhpurs; cummerbund; punch; pundit.

But isn't a char lady a cleaner?
People who char, clean.
But I do like a nice cup of char!

>> But isn't a char lady a cleaner? <<


Although we have established that early Hindi and English share some ancient and mysterious roots from the days before History got a record deal, it is also logical and likely that some Hindi words have only latterly been adopted. 'Sitar' for example was assimilated only recently in the mid 2oth century. 'Vindaloo' would have come even later.

So if I may expand on Vestboy's scepticism? It does seem that the social dynamic in which the word 'charlady' is used would indicate that its transition into English from Hindi (waves to Tamrhrind in a global, perhaps universally friendly way) was more recent, probably imported during the English Imperial days of the 19th century along with Kipling, the Calcutta black hole, the milder curries and small-eared elephrumps.


~jwf~ the man who would be King of Belfast

Me! Sceptical? I'm not so sure about that.

Akshully....our assumptions are wrong:

'cuppa char' - yes, Hindi for tea.

BUT 'charlady' - Anglo-Saxon: cierran.

(source: http://www.allwords.com)

Well, well! Live and learn.

When my dad was in the Navy, they said 'dobying' for washing (probably spelt dhobi-ing I'd imagine). A guy I used to work with had lived in Pakistan, where the person who did the washing was called the dhobi. So there's another influence from the sub-continent.


PS pukka means mockney tw@t?

<>

I think that's a load of old cobras.
Spike Milligna - that well known typo.

Anyone who remembers the sitcom iIt Ain't Half Hot Mum', from the days when racial stereotyping and white actors in brown greasepaint were considered acceptable might recall the Dhobi wallah (laundry), Char wallah (tea) and Punkah wallah (air conditioning).

I seem to recall that one of the actors was Roshan Seth. Or am I mis-remembering?

Another Hindi-English word: 'tiffin' Also, in the RN, a beach picnic is a 'banyan'.

Also...one that I maintain should be regarded as English: 'Bhindi'. These are a vegetable which are sometimes described in books as 'Okra or ladyfingers'. Now, conceivably if one were making a Creole dish (eg gumbo) one might call them 'okra'. But I can't conceive of any situation where someone would know them *only* as 'ladyfingers'. They're simply not a part of traditional British cuisine and therefore are not talked about.

As someone who is a keen cook and who shops a lot in Asian stores, I sometimes find myself forgetting the English names for veg and, especially, spices and reverting to the Hindi/Urdu! (Same language, by the way, but written differently).

>> ..reverting to the Hindi/Urdu! <<


I have just felt a very large penny drop.

But to confirm this epiphany let me specifically ask if the British pronounce 'hindi' without the 'h' sound?

Canadians of course use every 'h' god sends and H-H-H-Hindi is no exception.

As a result it has never before occurred to me that Brits likely pronounce it without the 'h', sounding something like 'Indy. Which suddenly seemed to explain where the name for 'India and all its 'Indians come from. I had never 'seen' that connection before.

This may be all too obvious to anyone in the UK hearing Britspeak all the time, but it is revelation to me. So please, tell me I have discovered some essential truth thing here and I shall go forward to launch a campaign to put the 'h' back in 'India.

It would be a huge help to North American aboriginals if we could clearly distinguish between Indians and Hindians. The latter being what Hindis from Hindia should have been called along.

The natives of North America could maintain their mistaken and mispronounced identity as 'Indians' with a new found contempt for English speaking white men who too often not only don't know where they are, they usually can't pronounce it either.


~jwf~