A Conversation for Ask h2g2

'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6201

anhaga

It is a perhaps interesting (but probably not) fact of literary history that Shaw based the character of Henry Higgens in "Pygmalion" on the famous (to some) English philologist Henry Sweet, well known even today (to a few) as the compiler of "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" and the author of "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Primer."

No, really.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6202

Wand'rin star

What's with the h at the beginning of have and help? Eliza wouldn't 'ave used it.smiley - starsmiley - star


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6203

six7s


H'actually, Hi 'adn't noticed m'Lady - 'appens it mighta been an hoversight


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6204

You can call me TC

Yes well, hotel is one of the Latin based words (connected to host, hospitality etc) and is therefore not aspirated. Which is why there is an argument for considering the "h" as a vowel. And thus saying "an hotel". Whether you do this or not, is up to you.

Just don't put "an"s in front of every word with an "h" (such as hate, Hun, hoard, hippy, hero (don't ask me - perhaps it's Greek), hierarchy....)

As you see, the aspirated words seem totally arbitrary to us, and only with the help of a French dictionary could I sort them out. So when in doubt, leave it out, and treat "h" as a good old down-to-earth English consonant.

Just for a laugh and because I've gone to the bother of opening the dictionary, here are some more which come from the Latin. If my theory is correct, therefore, we should say:

an heritage,
an hedonist
an herbaceous border
an human being
an hepatitis
an habitat

In no way would I say that I do use "an" in those cases, and, just like the next man, I would probably be surprised if you did. It was just to say where this rule originated, as far as I have gathered over the years.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6205

Gnomon - time to move on

I remember John Cleese say 'an Halibut' and stressing the h sound at the start of halibut in one of his caricatures of an English pedant.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6206

David B - Singing Librarian Owl

The closest I've ever seen to a rhyme for orange (and you have to warp your pronunciation) is 'door hinge'. No idea for purple or silver either.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6207

six7s



A496352 ~ How to Speak Brummie smiley - winkeye


<< 'H's are dropped wherever they occur, except when emphasis is required. The word 'Birmingham' therefore, has a silent 'h'. It also has a strong 'g', and the 'r' is not pronounced at all. >>


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6208

IctoanAWEWawi

Gnomon, someone else made that exact same point to me last night when we were discussing then an/a thing on the train. (btw he also had been taught 'an h' for everything like me).

So what now, the Monty Python Guide to the English Language? They were all OxBridge graduates after all smiley - smiley


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6209

Potholer

*sticks nose in air*

Mater, pater, I'm orf to play the graaaahnd piaaahno.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6210

typolifi

For purple and silver, we may as well invent some;
smiley - star murple: a purple murmure
smiley - star bealver: a Canadian silver beaver specie


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6211

mikeypie

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle uses "an hotel" in his Gerard Adventures. smiley - mouse


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6212

Gnomon - time to move on

I've been told that Hirple is a Scottish word meaning to limp and curple means the buttocks of a horse. Haven't looked them up yet, though.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6213

David B - Singing Librarian Owl

Ooooh... hurple is a word I came across once. It means something like walking along with shoulders hunched up. You know, the way Brits do when it's raining lightly and we haven't got a brolly handy.


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6214

IctoanAWEWawi

Gnomon is right (there's a surprise!) to hirple is to walk with a limping gait. Apparently it is in Chambers Dictionary. The scots association seems to be that it was first used by a scots poet. Mid 15th century or something?

There is also, apparently, Herpal, which is something else entirely!

word trivia, don't know how good though!

http://members.aol.com/gulfhigh2/words3.html


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6215

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

LOL. Thanks for that 'rough' but interesting page of info and trivia.
Lots of little known and little remembered factoids. I could feel neurons firing in areas of my memory I hadn't accessed for decades.
I can't get it out of my head now, but I hadn't even thought of Neil Sedaka and his big hit "Transistor Sister" since ..well, well before the 60s started swinging.
smiley - cheers
~jwf~


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6216

Researcher 188007

'Ello all,

Just popping back to say hi. And of course, to put my tuppence worth in smiley - biggrin

There are some people who insist on saying eg 'an herbaceous border', along with 'an hallucination' and 'an historic occasion' but not 'an heritage', 'an hedonist', the rule being that the h is only dropped in words with non-initial stress, this particularly applying to Romance words (Germanic words being very likely to have initial stress anyway).

As for hôtel, I'd say that unlike hostel (also the Old French spelling) and hospital, it remains somewhat on the borders of naturalisation into English, at least as far as those who frequent the more expensive ones are concerned.

French aspiration... hmmm, I may come back to that, once my French Pronunciation guide gets going again.

smiley - panda



'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6217

Wand'rin star

I 'ave to repeat that it's hincredibly haffected and/hor huneducated to sound the 'h', from whathever horigin. Received pronunciation won't let you 'ave it on most hof your (plural) hexamples. I hagree that hotel/otel is borderline smiley - starsmiley - star (who thought we agreed years ago not to argue over pron)


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6218

Researcher 188007

I was obviously away when everyone agreed not to discuss pron smiley - biggrin

Hmmm, are you saying it's affected to sound the /h/ or not in eg 'a/an historic?' The version with silent 'h' is affected, surely.

And aren't universal h-droppers generally seen as the least educated smiley - huh


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6219

Wand'rin star

Sorry, as always I'm being facetious. The blog will tell you that Gnomon and I always sound the h, except for hour,honour... I have already likened "an hotel" to crooking the little finger while tea drinking. smiley - starsmiley - star


'Official' English pronunciation

Post 6220

Researcher 188007

Shucks, obviously I'm turning Chinese without realising it.

What about the /h/ in 'adhere'?


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