A Conversation for Ask h2g2
'Official' English pronunciation
anhaga Posted Mar 27, 2003
It is a perhaps interesting (but probably not) fact of literary history that Shaw based the character of Henry Higgens in "Pygmalion" on the famous (to some) English philologist Henry Sweet, well known even today (to a few) as the compiler of "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" and the author of "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Primer."
No, really.
'Official' English pronunciation
six7s Posted Mar 27, 2003
H'actually, Hi 'adn't noticed m'Lady - 'appens it mighta been an hoversight
'Official' English pronunciation
You can call me TC Posted Mar 27, 2003
Yes well, hotel is one of the Latin based words (connected to host, hospitality etc) and is therefore not aspirated. Which is why there is an argument for considering the "h" as a vowel. And thus saying "an hotel". Whether you do this or not, is up to you.
Just don't put "an"s in front of every word with an "h" (such as hate, Hun, hoard, hippy, hero (don't ask me - perhaps it's Greek), hierarchy....)
As you see, the aspirated words seem totally arbitrary to us, and only with the help of a French dictionary could I sort them out. So when in doubt, leave it out, and treat "h" as a good old down-to-earth English consonant.
Just for a laugh and because I've gone to the bother of opening the dictionary, here are some more which come from the Latin. If my theory is correct, therefore, we should say:
an heritage,
an hedonist
an herbaceous border
an human being
an hepatitis
an habitat
In no way would I say that I do use "an" in those cases, and, just like the next man, I would probably be surprised if you did. It was just to say where this rule originated, as far as I have gathered over the years.
'Official' English pronunciation
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 27, 2003
I remember John Cleese say 'an Halibut' and stressing the h sound at the start of halibut in one of his caricatures of an English pedant.
'Official' English pronunciation
David B - Singing Librarian Owl Posted Mar 27, 2003
The closest I've ever seen to a rhyme for orange (and you have to warp your pronunciation) is 'door hinge'. No idea for purple or silver either.
'Official' English pronunciation
six7s Posted Mar 27, 2003
A496352 ~ How to Speak Brummie
<< 'H's are dropped wherever they occur, except when emphasis is required. The word 'Birmingham' therefore, has a silent 'h'. It also has a strong 'g', and the 'r' is not pronounced at all. >>
'Official' English pronunciation
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Mar 27, 2003
Gnomon, someone else made that exact same point to me last night when we were discussing then an/a thing on the train. (btw he also had been taught 'an h' for everything like me).
So what now, the Monty Python Guide to the English Language? They were all OxBridge graduates after all
'Official' English pronunciation
Potholer Posted Mar 27, 2003
*sticks nose in air*
Mater, pater, I'm orf to play the graaaahnd piaaahno.
'Official' English pronunciation
typolifi Posted Mar 29, 2003
For purple and silver, we may as well invent some;
murple: a purple murmure
bealver: a Canadian silver beaver specie
'Official' English pronunciation
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Mar 29, 2003
I've been told that Hirple is a Scottish word meaning to limp and curple means the buttocks of a horse. Haven't looked them up yet, though.
'Official' English pronunciation
David B - Singing Librarian Owl Posted Mar 30, 2003
Ooooh... hurple is a word I came across once. It means something like walking along with shoulders hunched up. You know, the way Brits do when it's raining lightly and we haven't got a brolly handy.
'Official' English pronunciation
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Mar 30, 2003
Gnomon is right (there's a surprise!) to hirple is to walk with a limping gait. Apparently it is in Chambers Dictionary. The scots association seems to be that it was first used by a scots poet. Mid 15th century or something?
There is also, apparently, Herpal, which is something else entirely!
word trivia, don't know how good though!
http://members.aol.com/gulfhigh2/words3.html
'Official' English pronunciation
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Mar 30, 2003
LOL. Thanks for that 'rough' but interesting page of info and trivia.
Lots of little known and little remembered factoids. I could feel neurons firing in areas of my memory I hadn't accessed for decades.
I can't get it out of my head now, but I hadn't even thought of Neil Sedaka and his big hit "Transistor Sister" since ..well, well before the 60s started swinging.
~jwf~
'Official' English pronunciation
Researcher 188007 Posted Apr 1, 2003
'Ello all,
Just popping back to say hi. And of course, to put my tuppence worth in
There are some people who insist on saying eg 'an herbaceous border', along with 'an hallucination' and 'an historic occasion' but not 'an heritage', 'an hedonist', the rule being that the h is only dropped in words with non-initial stress, this particularly applying to Romance words (Germanic words being very likely to have initial stress anyway).
As for hôtel, I'd say that unlike hostel (also the Old French spelling) and hospital, it remains somewhat on the borders of naturalisation into English, at least as far as those who frequent the more expensive ones are concerned.
French aspiration... hmmm, I may come back to that, once my French Pronunciation guide gets going again.
'Official' English pronunciation
Wand'rin star Posted Apr 1, 2003
I 'ave to repeat that it's hincredibly haffected and/hor huneducated to sound the 'h', from whathever horigin. Received pronunciation won't let you 'ave it on most hof your (plural) hexamples. I hagree that hotel/otel is borderline (who thought we agreed years ago not to argue over pron)
'Official' English pronunciation
Researcher 188007 Posted Apr 1, 2003
I was obviously away when everyone agreed not to discuss pron
Hmmm, are you saying it's affected to sound the /h/ or not in eg 'a/an historic?' The version with silent 'h' is affected, surely.
And aren't universal h-droppers generally seen as the least educated
'Official' English pronunciation
Wand'rin star Posted Apr 1, 2003
Sorry, as always I'm being facetious. The blog will tell you that Gnomon and I always sound the h, except for hour,honour... I have already likened "an hotel" to crooking the little finger while tea drinking.
'Official' English pronunciation
Researcher 188007 Posted Apr 1, 2003
Shucks, obviously I'm turning Chinese without realising it.
What about the /h/ in 'adhere'?
Key: Complain about this post
'Official' English pronunciation
- 6201: anhaga (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6202: Wand'rin star (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6203: six7s (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6204: You can call me TC (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6205: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6206: David B - Singing Librarian Owl (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6207: six7s (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6208: IctoanAWEWawi (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6209: Potholer (Mar 27, 2003)
- 6210: typolifi (Mar 29, 2003)
- 6211: mikeypie (Mar 29, 2003)
- 6212: Gnomon - time to move on (Mar 29, 2003)
- 6213: David B - Singing Librarian Owl (Mar 30, 2003)
- 6214: IctoanAWEWawi (Mar 30, 2003)
- 6215: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Mar 30, 2003)
- 6216: Researcher 188007 (Apr 1, 2003)
- 6217: Wand'rin star (Apr 1, 2003)
- 6218: Researcher 188007 (Apr 1, 2003)
- 6219: Wand'rin star (Apr 1, 2003)
- 6220: Researcher 188007 (Apr 1, 2003)
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