h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Are you really a big boy Lucinda (et al)?

You sure don't give that impression right now

I never said that to Lekz, I don't even know who Lekz is, and I don't want to. If Peta is upset, then Peta's upset, but Peta can take heart, as can all the other PTB that I support the decision and I will back them. . .they are the leaders in this medium and what they do they do for the good of the whole. . .they are the leaders.

If Arpeggio should rejoin the site and get away with it. . fine. . .I am not going to witch hunt her for it. . .but if not and she gets cuaght then she will be kicked off again, to not do so undermines the authority of the PTB. Arguing the case isn't going to change the verdict, and can only result in the inflamation of the cause. And I fear that if this goes any further more people will be eliminated from the forum and that is a great tragedy. Let it die, nobody who enjoys the freedom and joy of this site wants to further insight the PTB in this matter. . .it need to go away now. . .she is gone. . .and that is that. Further argueing can only escalate the subject further. I am all for the freedom of speech and all that, but I also for the freedom of individuals not to be insulted or defamed on this forum and that freedom supercedes all others.

Arpeggio is gone. . .and so a person of great intelloigence is gone as well. . .she had a lot to offer the commuinity and the biggest travesty is that she couldn't mesh socially with us and couldn't understand the true intent of this sight. . that is the free and amicable exchange of ideas and meaningless dribble (of which I am guilty of both). . .lets all move on from this. . .put it behind us. .. and get on with the true reason we are all here, to get ourselves in a medium amongst people of the same interest and to get our ideas out there in a manner that is non intrusive and friendly so we can all learn from one another and hope to reach a higher level of understanding and common ground, for I believe to be DNA's intent.

I wish things had not come to what they were, and I am sure much of what she said is up for interpretation. . .but the fact is, for the what was best for the site the decision is made.

Let it end all of you, and lets move on into what we all came her for originally. . .please

We've lost androyd, 'by day', and Barton so far over this, seemingly on a permanent basis. This will no doubt reaffirm Lethe's feelings, but I'm going to be leaving on a temporary basis - you can see me in a week's time, should you want to.

That's all folks.

you see, this posting before this is exactly what we need to avoid. There are a lot issues to get fired up about. . .this is trivial with respect to those. . .lets stop this before we lose another SCOUT or other researcher that could, potentially, have something profound to give us.

And they are not the only ones to go. This is what I have seen since Lekz joined the site, and because of this ALL of my current work in progress has been hidden by me!

LeKZ joins h2g2.
she get's involved in a few heated discussions, along with myself, barton, lucinda, myreddice, androyd, and countless others.

She spots some inacuracies in an article in peer review, where articles are supposedly put for community feedback, and ammendment, and mentions that the current wording and tone is not only wrong, but is the sort of thing used by bigots to support their bigotry against a certain social group.

This is sumarily dismissed.

she (and some others) point out that this is not going to go away, and various people then vilify them for pointing out a problem.

the person writing the article effectively says "it's my article, I think I'm right, and it's staying that way".

After a few more posts this person says "well, you've scared me off, so be proud that you did it". This incites a flame war, not about the point under debate, but personal abuse of those who also see the original problem. (often posted by regulars that should know better).

These same people stalk LeKZ through the forums, "Yikes"ing anything that could possibly be misinterpreted. This results in her being "temporarily banned".

After this happens, the originator of all this trouble comes out and says "I've been watching it all, I left knowing the trouble it would cause and I've been enjoying the fun" and "Ain't I enlightened" and "now she can't talk back here is my version". He then procedes to produce anther string of personal attacks that have very little to do with the problem".

These personal attacks get totally ignored, and a lot of the people who tel him that he's trying to re-write history, as the truth in the posts contradicts his version are jumped on, both by the people who hounded LeKZ off, and when they wouldn't stop insiting that he only write the truth, by the powers that be. This includes some of us getting warnings that the italics still haven't given reasons for when asked.

LeKZ's tempory ban ends, and she posts a comment of random letters and "XXX" marks to point out the sillyness of censorship.

Someone (most likely a member of the "let's get her" community) posts saying "I've managed to create this totally offensive set of comments about the staff by selectively manipulating the original text".

PETA and MARK understandably find the resulting creation bythis person offensive, and hurtfull, and I fully support the condemnation on the content of that revisionist post. BUT LeKZ did not post it!!!

Despite this, LeKZ is kicked off anyway, with no warning, for something that she didn't even post.

Is it surprising that some of us are upset, not at all, because it means that all we have to do is upset one of the "let's get her" group, and with the aid of h2g2 staff, using star chamber methodology, ANY OF US could be kicked off for nothing.

NOTE: although I haven't seen everything that LeKZ has posted, I have yet to see anything worthy (in context) of even a temporary ban.

So in the name of some of us who have yet to see anything wrong, I call for the full cronology of events to be put on this site, including the naes of who "yikes"ed which posts (with links to them so we can go and look) and who moderated and sent warnings. withoutthis sort of openess, I don't see much of the community of h2g2 still being here by the time the 1 year aniversary of dna's death rolls around.

Sympathy to peta for the understandable feelings of hurt she feels about the revisionist post, but point the blame in the right place, that stuff is only there if you go looking for it, and you must go looking for it, as I can't see anything wrong in the actual "XXX" post.

come on, Bring it all out into the open, and lets see the real truth.
Let's see who was in the wrong, who complained, and what about. and lets stop all this "well it happened behind closed doors, but we are right" holier than thou rubbish".

Let it end. . .please!!! To what end are you seeking. . .it is a moot point. . .she is gone. . .it needs to go away now. . .and the fun and joy needs to be rediscovered by us all

Xyroth, the problem that Arpeggio has had all this time is not what she was saying, but how she said it. Obviously an intelligent person, she persisted in 'stirring things up' for the hell of it. She stated that she had a multiple personality disorder, which I can believe - this whole mess looks to me as if one of her personalities decided to assert itself. It's a dang shame that she decided to insult two very cool people who are working hard to make h2g2 a better place. And she DID post that entry - I just went and checked.

And Lucinda/MyRedDice: yes, you could put a different interpretation upon the XXXXX post. But your translation is utterly silly, and out of context - it's obviously about Mark and Peta.

I'm tired. I'm going to go have a . And then another . I suggest that everybody else do the same, cool off, and come back to this conversation in a day or two.

Group

Lentilla

lentilla, I don't deny that she made the XXX post, only that the revisionist post of the yikes has nothing to do with it.
Some say that this problem needs to go away. they are right, but they see the wrong problem.

What they see is someone being thrown off, and others refusing to accept it.

What we see is someone being thrown off for apparently arbitrary reasons, which if true means that any of us at any time could be thrown off for similarly arbitrary reasons. It is for this reason that I request the chronology with the guilty being named at each point. It will then be obvious to all which perception is the case.

A lot of people are leaving, more are stopping contributing articles, and it is not because they all support LeKZ, or because they all disagree with the powers that be, it is because a lot of us don't see what EXACTLY it was that LeKZ posted that is any different to the stuff that others posted in the same conversations.

Some of us have recieved similarly arbitrary warnings, and requests for clarification have been either ignored, or we have been told "you have been warned, now shut up and behave". Given this attitude over at h2g2 towers, it is hardly surprising that we fail to shut up here, as we quite reasonably see ourselves as the next people on the hit list.

Do you want clever people actively contributing to the guide?
if so, then help persuade the powers that be to be transparent and open in their warnings and suspensions. in the case of LeKZ, they are neither (so far).

Perhaps they will read this and buck their ideas up.

I have just spent the entire night - about 7 hours of it anyway _re_reading some threads that have been contoversial in the last couple of weeks, and at the moment, apart from giving to all those who need one, can I please ask that as many of the people who do leave for a few days to cool down please please do come back?

Dont leave h2g2 permanently, because the community needs people who care about it enough to need to leave it to come back sometimes...

vogonpoet - says a lot, lurks a lot, cares about this place a lot,

I find that a good and a is all we need.


Perhaps we all need to unsubscribe and justMOVE ON. . .this site is so cool and multifaceted (not sure of the spelling). . .lets go on and pursue different avenues of artistic expression for that is what we all are. . .artists. . .


lets return to out roots for being here. .pure artistic and friendly expression

you say "the community need people who cares about it enough". this is true, but the community is made up of such people, and some of us see that if what we percieve to be the case is true, then "the community" doesn't give a XXXX about the people who care enough.

Given the way that certain members here have been vilified for standing up for opinions they share, with those in the towers taking sides against them, is it surprising that they are leaving?

STOP
STOP
STOP
it isn't worth getting upset over. . .let it drop and lets continue with why we are all here.

Aaron

Not suprising, I understand why some people have left , and why other people are very upset, and it just makes me sad

No.

I won't be driven off. That' feels too much like yielding to terrorism.

I'm here, until I, also, get banned for life for something I don't say.

Encrypted message to follow.

X

Don't antagonize. . .let it be

I, like several others, felt that banning LeKZ for a week was, perhaps, not the wisest of moves, given that both participants in the actual thread had resolved their differences.

But on this one: I have to firmly agree with the Italics, and offer (we /need/ a smiley for that!) and to Peta and Mark if they want.

To those claiming that the offensive post was simply "random" letters and XXs - come on, grow up and look at what you know about LeKZ. Look at their incredible insightful analysis of Vivienne's poem, which Pillowcase didn't understand. Look at their overall sensitivity to language. Look at the abilities they say that they have as a mega-multiple system.

And then tell me that /someone/ in there didn't intend EXACTLY the message which was decoded.

And that message is hurtful, offensive, and did not belong on a public h2g2 forum.

Lets just all forget about it and move on
s to the Italics though

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

By banning LeKZ for life the community is damaged. It could be you, it could be me. There but for the grace of god, and the italics, go any of us.

I am leaving for a week or so. I have a moral dilemma to face:

Is particpating in a community whose actions I fear and oppose actually complicity. Or is it the only way to influence and change that community?

*resisting the temptation to get specific*
*grieving*
*leaving*

a girl called Ben

xyroth, I doubt anything I can say here will change your mind about those of us who run this site. Don't blame me for trying, though, and please don't be offended if you think I sound like a none-too-bright, sleazy politician...

"What we see is someone being thrown off for apparently arbitrary reasons, which if true means that any of us at any time could be thrown off for similarly arbitrary reasons."

I wouldn't say the reasons were arbitrary! Arpeggio was thrown off for posting one of the most offensive pieces of material we've ever encountered on h2g2. The argument that it can be interpreted in a different, innocuous way is, in the view of all the staff who work on h2g2, not even worth entertaining.

"It is for this reason that I request the chronology with the guilty being named at each point. It will then be obvious to all which perception is the case."

That's easy: Arpeggio posted her XXX'd out posting, and when we found out what it really meant, we expelled her. What do you need to know that can throw any more light on this event? The theories of conspiracies mentioned elsewhere in this Conversation hold about as much water as the theories that Arpeggio's message wasn't actually offensive.

If you're referring to us posting a chronology for previous issues surrounding Arpeggio, I spent a lot of this week and last week explaining that in great detail. I am not going over that again - what on earth would be the point?

"A lot of people are leaving"

Nonsense. A small handful of very vocal and generally anti-authoritarian people may be saying they are leaving, but traffic and contribution levels on h2g2 have never been higher, and this little incident in the great scheme of h2g2 won't change that a bit.

If people who genuinely believe that Arpeggio's XXX posting was innocuous want to leave h2g2, because they feel we treated the poster unfairly, then that's totally up to them. I doubt very much it will be 'a lot of people'.

"Do you want clever people actively contributing to the guide?"

Not if it means that they act like children. h2g2 isn't about intellectualism, it's about enabling everyone - intelligent and 'none-too-bright' - to share their wisdom. We don't care how intelligent people are, but we do care how they behave.

"Perhaps [the powers that be] will read this and buck their ideas up."

I doubt it, xyroth. As I said, I have spent a *lot* of the last week explaining at great length why we made the decisions we did about Arpeggio. Of course I stand by them - they are, in our eyes, absolutely the right decisions. We gave Arpeggio plenty of opportunity to fit into the h2g2 Community, she threw it back in our faces, and now she has gone.

I think Lucinda has got absolutely the right idea. He's taking a week off h2g2, and I utterly applaud his self-control. As all I'm going to do here is back up all our decisions, remain utterly unmoved by theories of misinterpreted postings and conspiracy theories, and be a none-to-bright, sleazy politician, you might like to consider whether Lucinda's approach is a sensible one.

I'm certainly off for a breather. It's Saturday morning, after all...